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Question about statistics of twins conceived/successful implantation of both embies via IVF

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#1 PearKitty

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 06:06 PM

Hi everyone, I'm new here smile.png

 

So I have seen lots of advice on how to increase your chances of implantation after undergoing IVF, such as certain dietary changes, lifestyle changes, et cetera.

 

And the top answer on this Quora page (https://www.quora.co...-babies-at-once) about the odds of conceiving twins through in-vitro fertilization says that if exactly two embryos are implanted, statistically 33.9% of such pregnancies end up in twins.

 

With the above statistic in mind, would the probability of conceiving twins with two embryos implanted be higher than 33.9% if you strictly adhere to a lifestyle (including but not limited to dietary changes) that is the most effective (as possible) to ensure a successful implantation of two embryos? Greater than 50%, even?


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#2 amp77

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 06:55 PM

The statistics vary greatly depending on age and infertility diagnosis and other factors.  Your RE should be able to give you statistics specific to your situation.  Also, their mandate is typically to aim for one healthy pregnancy because there are many added risks with twins.  So if your odds are quite good with one embryo and if it is your first IVF, they will likely only allow (or strongly recommend) one be put back.  Age and other things also play a factor in this.  Also, if you put back 2, there is always the chance of one or both splitting, resulting in triplets, for example (I have seen that multiple times here).  The best person to answer for your situation would be your RE.

 

Best of luck to you!


  • lumnay likes this

Age 40, DH 44 in Oct.

TTC on and off since 2007 before our second IVF, in 2014, brought us our beautiful son and our first FET brought us our second son in 2017.  Our family is complete!

 

IVF #1 - April 2014 - BFN - no frosties

 

IVF #2 - July 2014 - BFP - 5B-AB and 4 frosties (5B-BB, 2x4B-BB and 3B-BB)

Apr. 13, 2015 - Daniel Erik was born at 5:05 am, weight 8 lbs, 13 oz, and 22" long.  He is perfect in every way.

 

FET #1 - September 2016 - BFP - 5B-BB and 3 frosties (2x4B-BB and 3B-BB)

June 18, 2017 - Matthew William was born at 2:46 am, weight 8 lbs, 11 oz and 21" long.  He is perfect in every way too!

 

 


#3 Tess

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 08:54 PM

Hi everyone, I'm new here smile.png

 

So I have seen lots of advice on how to increase your chances of implantation after undergoing IVF, such as certain dietary changes, lifestyle changes, et cetera.

 

And the top answer on this Quora page (https://www.quora.co...-babies-at-once) about the odds of conceiving twins through in-vitro fertilization says that if exactly two embryos are implanted, statistically 33.9% of such pregnancies end up in twins.

 

With the above statistic in mind, would the probability of conceiving twins with two embryos implanted be higher than 33.9% if you strictly adhere to a lifestyle (including but not limited to dietary changes) that is the most effective (as possible) to ensure a successful implantation of two embryos? Greater than 50%, even?

 

The numbers I've seen for donor eggs are somewhere between 35-40% for twinning.  This is for ideal embryos & I've never seen average rates of 50% for twinning. 

 

Lifestyle isn't nearly as important as quality of embryos.  In terms of lifestyle you need to get to a healthy baseline (things like Vitamin D deficiencies may hurt implantation) but after that, it's all about the lining of the uterus, the timing and the embryo quality.

 

Assuming a good lining and the timing is right, it's all about the quality of the embryo.  Five day old embryos have the greatest chance of implanting, with low fragmentation.  So, two hatching blasts with low fragmentation probably have a greater chance of implanting then 2 3-day-old blasts with 6 cells.  

 

Good luck!!



#4 From0to3

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 10:09 PM

Hi Pear Kitty - please dont take this as being negative but those stats are from live births and not ivf attempts. If one is successful through ivf and experiences a live birth 33.9 percent of births resulted in twins when transferring two embryos. In terms of success with a live birth as other posters have noted - there are many variables that determine your chance of success. Wishing you well on your cycle.
  • lumnay likes this

IVF#1:17 Eggs, 4-5 Day Blasts: Transferred 2: th_abfn.gif

 FET#1: Transferred 2: th_abfp.gif m/[email protected] th_agrr.gif 

IVF#2: 5 Eggs, 5-5 Day Blasts: Transferred 2: th_abfp.gif Boy/Girl Twins born DEC 2013 babygirl.gif babyboy.gif 

 

FET#2:Transferred 1: th_abfp.gif Baby Girl born July 2016 babygirl.gif  

 

2 Frosties Remaining.


#5 PearKitty

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Posted 04 March 2017 - 05:43 PM

Thanks for the answers everyone! But I have a few more questions about the matter:

 

 

Hi everyone, I'm new here smile.png

 

So I have seen lots of advice on how to increase your chances of implantation after undergoing IVF, such as certain dietary changes, lifestyle changes, et cetera.

 

And the top answer on this Quora page (https://www.quora.co...-babies-at-once) about the odds of conceiving twins through in-vitro fertilization says that if exactly two embryos are implanted, statistically 33.9% of such pregnancies end up in twins.

 

With the above statistic in mind, would the probability of conceiving twins with two embryos implanted be higher than 33.9% if you strictly adhere to a lifestyle (including but not limited to dietary changes) that is the most effective (as possible) to ensure a successful implantation of two embryos? Greater than 50%, even?

 

The numbers I've seen for donor eggs are somewhere between 35-40% for twinning.  This is for ideal embryos & I've never seen average rates of 50% for twinning. 

 

Lifestyle isn't nearly as important as quality of embryos.  In terms of lifestyle you need to get to a healthy baseline (things like Vitamin D deficiencies may hurt implantation) but after that, it's all about the lining of the uterus, the timing and the embryo quality.

 

Assuming a good lining and the timing is right, it's all about the quality of the embryo.  Five day old embryos have the greatest chance of implanting, with low fragmentation.  So, two hatching blasts with low fragmentation probably have a greater chance of implanting then 2 3-day-old blasts with 6 cells.  

 

Good luck!!

 

 

Hi Tess! I'm sure you know more about this than I do, but I wanted to ask, 

 

1. You said that with two ideal embryos implanted, there is only a 35-40% chance of twins, But I'm confused because Dr. Pabon from the Fertility Center & Applied Genetics of Florida on this webpage (http://geneticsandfe...ction-with-ivf/) says that "Implanting 2 [robust embryos] has resulted in 100% twins in every case robust embryos were transferred (at the time of this writing)." (I don't live in FL, and I'm not affiliated with this clinic, but I found this after extensive Googling)

 

2. If lifestyle is not as important as quality eggs, does that mean that I could eat a diet containing gluten, dairy and/or soy (according to the advice on the internet about eating right for IVF) and still produce healthy eggs that would become embryos that would implant?



#6 Red Wine

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Posted 04 March 2017 - 06:28 PM

Do you want to conceive twins?

See about me page.


#7 Red Wine

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Posted 04 March 2017 - 06:38 PM

Statistics can be skewed and adjusted depending on what the author wants to convey. What constitutes two robust embryos? What was the fertility diagnosis if those women receiving robust embryos. How often do couples get two robust embryos in an IVF cycle.

Infertility treatment is never a guarantee. You could probably find ladies on here that transferred good quality, genetically normal embryos that get BFN's, miscarry, have late term loss or some other complication that does not result in a live birth. Nothing can guarantee a live birth.
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#8 amp77

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Posted 04 March 2017 - 08:59 PM

I agree with all the comments above.

 

And embryos are not "implanted".  They are simply transferred and they may or may not implant.  So I am not sure if they are saying that, in cases where 2 "robust" embryos are transferred AND both implant, twins result 100% of the time.  And did any of those split and become triplets or even quads?  Seems like a very strange statistic.

 

There is nothing you can do to be sure that eggs will be good and will result in embryos that will implant.  If there were, everyone would be doing it.  There is also no guarantee that you will even have two embryos let alone two "robust" embryos.

 

Every RE seems to have different recommendations.  Mine basically didn't suggest anything to increase odds.  I asked about diet and supplements and they didn't have any recommendations of that nature given that I have unexplained infertility.  Then I see other people doing dairy free, gluten free, sugar free, caffeine free, alcohol free etc. etc. based on advice.  That being said, I did take supplements and did acupuncture which were recommended on here.

 

My cycles looked like this... At age 36 - 8 eggs retrieved, 6 mature, 5 fertilized.  1 excellent day 5 blast transferred.  BFN, nothing to freeze.  Next, still age 36 - 11 eggs retrieved, 10 mature, 8 fertilized.  1 excellent 5 day blast transferred which resulted in my son.  4 embryos frozen.  At age 39, I transferred the best of the frozen blasts which was also excellent quality and am 25 weeks pregnant.  

 

As mentioned above, people have perfect embryos, genetically screened, and they don't result in pregnancy.  Other people have iffy embryos, transferred on day 3 that result in take home babies.  It is not an exact science and there are so many factors and unknowns.  Embryos could be perfect, but immune issues or lining issues or hormone issues or other issues may prevent a pregnancy from occurring or making it to term.

 

Stats are great and I love stats too but there is nothing that would account for your exact situation and diagnosis and predict an outcome.

 

It sounds like you really want twins, perhaps I am wrong, but I would do a lot of research on it.  In my family, there have been 4 sets of twins.  One pair, things went well.  Next were born very early and one was in hospital for months and on oxygen for months more.  Next set, born very early, one passed soon after birth.  Next set, same mother, same result and remaining twin has cerebral palsy.  I am not trying to be mean or scare you or scare anyone currently carrying twins.  And I understand that lots of twin pregnancies are relatively uncomplicated, but there are far more things that can go wrong than with a singleton.

 

I do wish you luck on your journey and hope that you will find success!


  • lumnay likes this

Age 40, DH 44 in Oct.

TTC on and off since 2007 before our second IVF, in 2014, brought us our beautiful son and our first FET brought us our second son in 2017.  Our family is complete!

 

IVF #1 - April 2014 - BFN - no frosties

 

IVF #2 - July 2014 - BFP - 5B-AB and 4 frosties (5B-BB, 2x4B-BB and 3B-BB)

Apr. 13, 2015 - Daniel Erik was born at 5:05 am, weight 8 lbs, 13 oz, and 22" long.  He is perfect in every way.

 

FET #1 - September 2016 - BFP - 5B-BB and 3 frosties (2x4B-BB and 3B-BB)

June 18, 2017 - Matthew William was born at 2:46 am, weight 8 lbs, 11 oz and 21" long.  He is perfect in every way too!

 

 


#9 Tess

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Posted 04 March 2017 - 09:43 PM

Thanks for the answers everyone! But I have a few more questions about the matter:

 

 

Hi everyone, I'm new here smile.png

 

So I have seen lots of advice on how to increase your chances of implantation after undergoing IVF, such as certain dietary changes, lifestyle changes, et cetera.

 

And the top answer on this Quora page (https://www.quora.co...-babies-at-once) about the odds of conceiving twins through in-vitro fertilization says that if exactly two embryos are implanted, statistically 33.9% of such pregnancies end up in twins.

 

With the above statistic in mind, would the probability of conceiving twins with two embryos implanted be higher than 33.9% if you strictly adhere to a lifestyle (including but not limited to dietary changes) that is the most effective (as possible) to ensure a successful implantation of two embryos? Greater than 50%, even?

 

The numbers I've seen for donor eggs are somewhere between 35-40% for twinning.  This is for ideal embryos & I've never seen average rates of 50% for twinning. 

 

Lifestyle isn't nearly as important as quality of embryos.  In terms of lifestyle you need to get to a healthy baseline (things like Vitamin D deficiencies may hurt implantation) but after that, it's all about the lining of the uterus, the timing and the embryo quality.

 

Assuming a good lining and the timing is right, it's all about the quality of the embryo.  Five day old embryos have the greatest chance of implanting, with low fragmentation.  So, two hatching blasts with low fragmentation probably have a greater chance of implanting then 2 3-day-old blasts with 6 cells.  

 

Good luck!!

 

 

Hi Tess! I'm sure you know more about this than I do, but I wanted to ask, 

 

1. You said that with two ideal embryos implanted, there is only a 35-40% chance of twins, But I'm confused because Dr. Pabon from the Fertility Center & Applied Genetics of Florida on this webpage (http://geneticsandfe...ction-with-ivf/) says that "Implanting 2 [robust embryos] has resulted in 100% twins in every case robust embryos were transferred (at the time of this writing)." (I don't live in FL, and I'm not affiliated with this clinic, but I found this after extensive Googling)

 

2. If lifestyle is not as important as quality eggs, does that mean that I could eat a diet containing gluten, dairy and/or soy (according to the advice on the internet about eating right for IVF) and still produce healthy eggs that would become embryos that would implant?

 

 

I had 2 robust embryos implanted in my DE cycle and only 1 stuck, who is now my baby girl!  

 

My clinic gave me stats for the percentage of twins they got from DE cycles with 2 5-day embies transferred, and I can't remember their exact number from last year, but believe it was somewhere between 35-40%.  Usually the first transfer in a DE cycle has very robust embies.  I knew there was a high risk of twins, but also knew it was less then 50%.

 

And remember there is a very high rate of natural miscarriage/ chemical pregnancy in all pregnancies, so it's not unusual for 2 to implant and 1 to be lost to a chemical pregnancy. 

 

I ate lots of dairy and cheese that cycle.  I didn't cut out gluten.  Unless you have a specific disorder, I wouldn't think gluten or dairy is a problem.  

 

But I did take vitamin D supplements because vitamin D deficiencies may hurt implantation rates.  And I ate lots of folic acid, veggies, fruits, iron, lean meat, fish, and fish oil.  

 

There's a study that suggests reducing carbs and increasing lean protein improves egg quality.  So eating lots of fish & lean meat/protein and cutting out bread/pasta/crackers could only help.  

 

But I've never seen anything that suggests skim milk or yogurt, or cheese is a problem.  In fact, I would think low-fat dairy would help because of the protein & vitamin D in the milk.

 

Good luck!!!  



#10 Hopingfor1

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 12:46 AM

Lots of women that don't require fertility treatment eat lots of dairy/gluten/soy and produce healthy eggs that implant and result in healthy births.

For the most part, only those of us that have to go through this financially and emotionally difficult journey pay special attention to additional things that may help us be successful. For some of us, they may help but for others with different reasons for our fertility struggle, they have no more influence than they do with the general public.
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Me: 40  = High FSH (ranges from 8 - 15), Low AMH (2.7), Low AFC = DOR

DH: 43 = borderline sperm analysis

Started TTC#1 January 2010

 

2011 - 2012 - First fertility clinic, lots of testing, operative hysteroscopy to remove polyps, multiple unsuccessful IUIs, 1 IVF (150 Menopur/150 Gonal F) converted to IUI due to poor response

 

2012 - got second opinion and after AMH results came back, advised at 36 I had a less than 5% chance of conceiving via IVF.  Donor eggs strongly recommended but not yet ready for that (I should say - hubby not ready for that.  I was ready for donor eggs - I just wanted to be a Mom).  Decided clinic wasn't for us and back to clinic #1

 

2013 - IVF #1 (after 1st converted to IUI).  Estrogen Priming protocol - start Climara patch 7 days post ovulation and change every other day.  3 orgalutran injections beginning day after first Climara patch applied.  Start stims day 2 triggered on night 15 of stims = 3 eggs retrieved, 0 fertilized via ICSI = no transfer  (300 Gonal F/150 Menopur & Orgalutran)

 

2013 - Switch clinics

 

Office hysteroscopy = all clear

 

IVF #2 (37 years old) June 2013 - Estrace priming protocol.  4 mg estrace started 7 days post ovulation.  Start stims Day 3 (300 Gonal F/150 Menopur & Orgalutran)

Slow response as usual

Triggered on night 12 of stims (given the option to cancel as it looked like we'd get 3 eggs - knew we wouldn't do any better so continued).

ER:  6 eggs, but advised some were small and would be immature

Fert report:  5 of 6 eggs immature.  2 fertilized via ICSI (including one of the immature eggs)

ET:  Transferred our only 2 embryos - a 5 cell and an 8 cell

11dp3dt = BFP - HCG = 65

16dp3dt = HCG 1,305 (cautiously pregnant)

7 week ultrasound = 1 baby HB = 141

12 weeks ultrasound NT scan = NT = 1.7mm all looks good.  Combined with blood work risk is 1/1,400

Got Harmony blood test results back (done for peace of mind) - all clear and we're having a GIRL!

EDD = March 2014 (cautiously looking forward to that date)

However - baby had plans to arrive early. After PPROM and managing to cook the little one a bit longer, our bundle of joy arrived at 33 weeks.  After a 3 week NICU stay, she is finally home.  We are totally in love and forever thankful for our little miracle baby - Ashley Nicole.

 

 


#11 EverHopefull!

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 02:03 PM

In my cycles where I followed the dietary recommendations I wasn't successful.  In my last cycle I ate cheeseburgers, drank coffee, took no vitamins (apart from folic acid - and not even as part of a multi-vitamin) and didn't do acupuncture, and was successful.  Unless there's a reason for you to follow a particular diet then it's just a control thing (IMO).  If you eat cheeseburgers and drink coffee and aren't successful will you feel like you failed?  Or like you didn't do everything you could do?  Will it cause you regrets?  If yes, then follow the dietary requirements.  They won't impact the success stats the way you're hoping though.


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Finally a successful DE cycle!  babyEver is due July 1st.

 


#12 amp77

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 02:42 PM

In my cycles where I followed the dietary recommendations I wasn't successful.  In my last cycle I ate cheeseburgers, drank coffee, took no vitamins (apart from folic acid - and not even as part of a multi-vitamin) and didn't do acupuncture, and was successful.  Unless there's a reason for you to follow a particular diet then it's just a control thing (IMO).  If you eat cheeseburgers and drink coffee and aren't successful will you feel like you failed?  Or like you didn't do everything you could do?  Will it cause you regrets?  If yes, then follow the dietary requirements.  They won't impact the success stats the way you're hoping though.

Couldn't agree more.  For me, restricting too many things would cause me to be upset and stressed.  I also had burgers, and wine, and was happy and relaxed and it worked for me :)


  • lumnay, north and EverHopefull! like this

Age 40, DH 44 in Oct.

TTC on and off since 2007 before our second IVF, in 2014, brought us our beautiful son and our first FET brought us our second son in 2017.  Our family is complete!

 

IVF #1 - April 2014 - BFN - no frosties

 

IVF #2 - July 2014 - BFP - 5B-AB and 4 frosties (5B-BB, 2x4B-BB and 3B-BB)

Apr. 13, 2015 - Daniel Erik was born at 5:05 am, weight 8 lbs, 13 oz, and 22" long.  He is perfect in every way.

 

FET #1 - September 2016 - BFP - 5B-BB and 3 frosties (2x4B-BB and 3B-BB)

June 18, 2017 - Matthew William was born at 2:46 am, weight 8 lbs, 11 oz and 21" long.  He is perfect in every way too!

 

 


#13 Tellette

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 06:03 PM

Hello,

So after about 9 IUIs and 3 IVF cycles, including 1 fresh cycle, The doctor asked to put 3 in during this past January cycle.  On the day of transfer i had 2 5AA blast and another blast that was still developing.  He wanted me to put them all in because we had tried only one in the past and he wanted to be more aggressive.  So he went from one to three.  I talked him down to the 2 5Aa blast.  He informed "not to worry.  The chance of twins isnt that high.  But if one doesnt take, you will have any other chance with the other"...Fast forward i am currently 9 weeks with twins lol. It was not necessarily in my plan to have twins.  We just wanted one more kid to make two, in our family, but here we are.  I would really take all information with a grain of salt.  theres no "rea'" science to it. My diet didnt change much..i drank more pomegranate juice and pineapple core..but i had did that for the other cycles too.  I was sick this round though. before and after the transfer.  so i really didnt think this would work. but here i am.  Due october. I just stare at the doctor now lol..not really believe the things he say, he also told me that the chance of miscarriage after seeing the heartbeat is 3%. yet people are miscarrying their babies all the time.  So im still in the scared phase.  Good luck to you. 



#14 JJ88

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 01:43 PM

Thanks for the answers everyone! But I have a few more questions about the matter:

 

 

Hi everyone, I'm new here smile.png

 

So I have seen lots of advice on how to increase your chances of implantation after undergoing IVF, such as certain dietary changes, lifestyle changes, et cetera.

 

And the top answer on this Quora page (https://www.quora.co...-babies-at-once) about the odds of conceiving twins through in-vitro fertilization says that if exactly two embryos are implanted, statistically 33.9% of such pregnancies end up in twins.

 

With the above statistic in mind, would the probability of conceiving twins with two embryos implanted be higher than 33.9% if you strictly adhere to a lifestyle (including but not limited to dietary changes) that is the most effective (as possible) to ensure a successful implantation of two embryos? Greater than 50%, even?

 

The numbers I've seen for donor eggs are somewhere between 35-40% for twinning.  This is for ideal embryos & I've never seen average rates of 50% for twinning. 

 

Lifestyle isn't nearly as important as quality of embryos.  In terms of lifestyle you need to get to a healthy baseline (things like Vitamin D deficiencies may hurt implantation) but after that, it's all about the lining of the uterus, the timing and the embryo quality.

 

Assuming a good lining and the timing is right, it's all about the quality of the embryo.  Five day old embryos have the greatest chance of implanting, with low fragmentation.  So, two hatching blasts with low fragmentation probably have a greater chance of implanting then 2 3-day-old blasts with 6 cells.  

 

Good luck!!

 

 

Hi Tess! I'm sure you know more about this than I do, but I wanted to ask, 

 

1. You said that with two ideal embryos implanted, there is only a 35-40% chance of twins, But I'm confused because Dr. Pabon from the Fertility Center & Applied Genetics of Florida on this webpage (http://geneticsandfe...ction-with-ivf/) says that "Implanting 2 [robust embryos] has resulted in 100% twins in every case robust embryos were transferred (at the time of this writing)." (I don't live in FL, and I'm not affiliated with this clinic, but I found this after extensive Googling)

 

2. If lifestyle is not as important as quality eggs, does that mean that I could eat a diet containing gluten, dairy and/or soy (according to the advice on the internet about eating right for IVF) and still produce healthy eggs that would become embryos that would implant?

Be careful about clinics claiming 100% because as per data from a handout from the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services CDC using 5d blastocyst 

"Transferring 1 fresh embryo results in 51% one baby and Less than 1% twins

Transferring 2 fresh embryo results in 60% one baby and twins 27%" 

 

If those numbers would state if fraternal or identical twins would be much helpful. Obviously the transfer of 1 fresh leading to twins means identical. But most of the twins using 2 fresh are fraternal.

Unless you and/or your partner has natural twins in their family then it's safe to say that the % of twinning will still be dependent on how lucky you are :) 



#15 JJ88

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 01:48 PM

Hello,

So after about 9 IUIs and 3 IVF cycles, including 1 fresh cycle, The doctor asked to put 3 in during this past January cycle.  On the day of transfer i had 2 5AA blast and another blast that was still developing.  He wanted me to put them all in because we had tried only one in the past and he wanted to be more aggressive.  So he went from one to three.  I talked him down to the 2 5Aa blast.  He informed "not to worry.  The chance of twins isnt that high.  But if one doesnt take, you will have any other chance with the other"...Fast forward i am currently 9 weeks with twins lol. It was not necessarily in my plan to have twins.  We just wanted one more kid to make two, in our family, but here we are.  I would really take all information with a grain of salt.  theres no "rea'" science to it. My diet didnt change much..i drank more pomegranate juice and pineapple core..but i had did that for the other cycles too.  I was sick this round though. before and after the transfer.  so i really didnt think this would work. but here i am.  Due october. I just stare at the doctor now lol..not really believe the things he say, he also told me that the chance of miscarriage after seeing the heartbeat is 3%. yet people are miscarrying their babies all the time.  So im still in the scared phase.  Good luck to you. 

Good luck Tellete. I fully empathize! Partner and i are being cautiously optimistic and even have this shhh until we successfully pass the first trimester. It's nerve wracking to wait and see. But seeing their heartbeats, one of the most memorable highlights of my entire life :)

 

You have a crazy doc (no offense) lol Docs normally implant 2 at most as their aggressive mode.







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