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#1 Hopeful Cdn

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 09:29 AM

So I calculated the costs of our cycle in India and got the itemized receipt from the clinic signed by the doc.

 

Total cost in India was 5855.00 CDN after currency conversion to CAD (I printed the total from XE.com on the same day the receipt was printed so Revenue Canada can't jip me on the exchange rate).

 

So total for IVF / ICSI = 5855.00 CAD

 

Food (per diem) states 51.00 a day with 'simplified method' which does not require receipts. I was gone a total of 31 days including the travel days. (This is 2015 rates and 2016 might be higher).

So basically 31 x 51 = 1581.00 CAD

 

Airfare costs were 2040.00 CAD

 

I had one hotel night (rest accommodation was covered but I had one night in transit overnight in Delhi between flights).  Total was 113.00 CAD

 

Additionally I had two prescriptions I had to fill in Canada that were not covered and were out of pocket:

DHEA  x 2 months = 147.00 CAD

Crinone (India didn't give me enough) x 9 more days = 278.00 CAD

 

Can I claim all the above?? For a total of $10,014.00 CAD??

 

 

 

Right now I have typed up an affidavit, explaining why we had to do it in India as per RC website saying you need to explain why medical treatment was necessary outside Canada. (my husband is in India, still does not have his permanent resident approved and my age / AMH level we had to do now rather than wait any longer). I left blanks for the total expenses, and put the appropriate signature blocks for affiant and notary. Its only one page, and I refer to 3 Exhibits in it.

 

For each exhibit I typed a short cover page with the total and what the item is and stapled the appropriate receipts to the cover page. And then everything will be stapled to the affidavit.

 

Exhibit A was receipt from the clinic in India itemized, and also the XE.com conversion for the day of the receipt showing the total in CAD. Exhibit B was air fare receipt. Exhibit C was split, top half of the cover page showing the total claimed for food (I left the totals blank so I can add the 2016 rates later on when they become available) and the bottom half was hotel total (I only had one receipt from hotel for while in transit).

The total of everything will be added on the affidavit front page and the whole thing signed and stamped by a notary so that revenue Canada will not feel I am trying to pull any wool over their eyes. It will all be fully legal document. I know it's probably not necessary to go to that length, but I don't want any issues.

 

The scripts I had filled in Canada I will submit as their own medical expense separately.

 

Now the question is, how much of this should I see back in my pocket in the return, if I make around 70 K CAD this year??  Any estimates???



#2 quandry

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 11:47 AM

You need a letter from a dr, not a personal affidavit as I explained once before.

As for your perdiem, you are only eligible for treatment days. So not the entire trip. So if you had 10 days of stims, a five day wait and transfer, you could claim 16 days, plus one day before and after plus travel days, so 20 days. As for hotel, again only if it was treatment or travel related.
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#3 quandry

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 11:48 AM

And yes. Your out of pocket expenses for drugs are eligible as well.

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#4 Hopeful Cdn

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 01:54 PM

You need a letter from a dr, not a personal affidavit as I explained once before.

As for your perdiem, you are only eligible for treatment days. So not the entire trip. So if you had 10 days of stims, a five day wait and transfer, you could claim 16 days, plus one day before and after plus travel days, so 20 days. As for hotel, again only if it was treatment or travel related.

 

The hotel was on a travel day so thats ok. And I have the receipt from the clinic signed by the doctor so thats the letter equivalent I guess. So thats ok. I just organized everything in the affidavit (which just explains why I had to do outside Canada). Stim was actually 12 days, then 3 day wait, transfer, and then during the 2ww they were still giving the injections to me. According to them I could not travel until at least a week after the transfer because I was on complete rest and they wont allow patients to give themselves injections. I will try to claim those days since they would not let me travel.  They actually wanted me to stay there until the beta HCg.  But I had to be back for work as military only gives so much leave. The doctor will actually allude to that fact. Worst RC can say is no... 



#5 quandry

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 02:16 PM

The receipt signed by a dr will not be sufficient. As stated several times previously, you need to find a Canadian dr who will write a letter stating why you needed to travel for ivf. Otherwise you will likely have your request denied.

You will get back about 20% of your costs if you're approved.
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#6 Hopeful Cdn

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 05:01 PM

I am in the military and they won't write letters (they are not allowed as military doctors exist more to protect the interests of Canada and not us so much and they won't chance using their name on anything being military members themselves)... And I can't just go behind the military's back to a civilian doctor. So how can I go about this? Does this mean I can not claim it at all?



#7 quandry

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 05:05 PM

Some military Drs are also civilian. They could advise you what needs to be done. It is possible that they would write the letter. I am an ex military wife and know the system pretty well too.
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#8 Hopeful Cdn

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 05:09 PM

Some military Drs are also civilian. They could advise you what needs to be done. It is possible that they would write the letter. I am an ex military wife and know the system pretty well too.

 

But according to the Revenue Canada site, it doesn't seem to need a certification from a medical doctor?? Or am I missing something somewhere?  And even the civillian docs working for DND are not allowed.  I need a letter before pertaining to something else and they said it's outright no. 

 

This is what Revenue Canada site says under medical expenses abroad as requirements:

 

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#9 quandry

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 05:13 PM

You can send in without, but it'll be reviewed and they'll ask for the letter. Just saying you might want to be prepared.

Talk to them about what dr to see in the civy world. They may refer you to a fertility specialist who would be able to do it.
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#10 quandry

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 05:13 PM

There are also civilian Drs you can pay for letters which is what you might need to do.
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#11 Hopeful Cdn

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 05:22 PM

You can send in without, but it'll be reviewed and they'll ask for the letter. Just saying you might want to be prepared.

Talk to them about what dr to see in the civy world. They may refer you to a fertility specialist who would be able to do it.

 

The problem is, I do not have a provincial health card. Anything I do medically will flag the military and they will get the report. If it's not emergency (like going to the ER) I will be held accountable. I can't just 'go' to a civvy doctor. It's not an option. Maybe the affivdavit will be of use then. In our case, its not that it was medically necessary to do it in India (though is it medically necessary for anyone really?) But the fact is, easily verifiable by Gov of Canada, that my husband still does not have his Permanent Resident approval and is an Indian citizen. Without him being physically in Canada, IVF here would be impossible. I have all the proof that he does not yet have approval to enter Canada. But that is not a medical necessity.  Having a civilian doctor (or otherwise) make statements about my husband's permanent resident application would not be appropriate because 1) it's not medically related, and 2)  they don't have access to his private information on Canada's Immigration status. It would make no sense to me for a doctor to write the words, "she needed to because her husband is not in Canada and does not yet have permanent residence approval." It makes much more sense for someone from Immigration to write that. As for medical necessity,  no IVF is ever 'medically' necessary such that a doctor would say it was imperative to procure this treatment. By its very nature, It's purely elective.  At least an affidavit puts my own butt on the line making the statement that it was necessary because of citizenship issues and my age both of which are easily verifiable. 

 

I don't think getting a letter is possible at all for me, unless I knew a doctor in the family or something or a friend who is a doctor, which I don't. I do know nurses... well LPNs I could get my friend who is an LPN to write something and sign it as a character witness type of thing.



#12 quandry

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 05:50 PM

That's why I am saying to get a military referral to a fertility specialist. as said. I'm familiar with the system. Which was why I suggested a "for pay" dr instead of a provincial one. And while it may be flagged you have need to be there that isn't military related.

Again. Talk to your military dr and see what they suggest you do. that's your best way forward.
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#13 CdnHockeyGal

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 07:39 PM

My accountant has always advised me that IVF out of province will ALWAYS require a letter indicating WHY treatment was required outside your home province if services are available locally (i.e. Immune treatments not available in province, egg donor cycle not readily available in province, etc.). It is my understanding that the medical expense tax credit is the most frequently audited...you would be well advised to seek your advice from an tax professional to avoid challenges later on.
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#14 Hopeful Cdn

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 07:01 AM

In our case, it's pretty apparent why it was required outside of Nova Scotia! My husband does not yet have permanent residence for Canada meaning he is not allowed even to come on a visitor visa. It's not a medical reason why it was necessary, but a Citizenship Immigration reason. I can provide a letter from CIC stating that my husband has never been in Canada and is not yet allowed to enter Canada until his application is processed, which can take up to 18 months. Yes services are available locally, however it's kind of difficult to utilize them if the other party is not here!

 

I hope you are not saying that they would rather I used an egg donor than my own husband, just so I would pay for it in province?

 

I can get a letter from Citizenship Immigration stating my husband is not yet in Canada and could take up to 18 months.

 

I can write an affidavit (basically putting my own butt on the line because affidavits are legal documents) stating the reason why it was required to do it in India

 

I asked today about a referral to a civilian doctor, and the military outright says no. If they refer you to a civvy doctor, then the premise is, the military is paying for that referral. In cases of infertility, they will only cover referrals in younger women where the issue seems to be structural.

 

Being military, I can not just go to a civvy doctor on my own. Of I do, instead of a provincial health card # they have to put my military blue cross # and then, that visit is sent back to the military. So there is no escaping it and no way to do it behind the military's back.

 

I CAN get a letter from an LPN (licensed practical nurse) but that would be more as a character witness since an LPN is not a doctor.

 

Regardless, a Doctor would never make any statement regarding my husband's citizenship status. Fact is. it was not medically necessary for me to get IVF in India. IVF is never 'medically' necessary because it's an elective procedure.  The military doc confirmed this today, that no doctor would write something saying it was 'necessary' for me to have IVF at all, because it was not. Meaning it was not related to my own health or survival. It was not necessary to save my life etc .I won't die if I don't have a child (that's what she said)... As far as family planning, she said they will not write anything having to do with citizenship and immigration etc. because it's not their specialty and they don't have access to my husband's Immigration file, so they can't comment on it.  

 

Further, the Revenue Canada website says no letter or certificate is necessary for IVF.  If they are asking for it, then they should change the website to reflect as such.  

 

So should I just not even apply for the tax deduction?



#15 quandry

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 07:37 AM

Can I just say something? You've had loads of good advice here. I'm not sure why you keep asserting that our advice is wrong for your situation. If you don't want the deduction, don't bother with our advice. But if you do, maybe. Just maybe. Try? Try what we've advised?

1- go see a tax accountant.
2- follow their advice
3- if that means getting a Drs note then figure out how to do it.
4- that might mean paying for a Drs services in the civilian world.
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#16 quandry

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 07:39 AM

And while revenue Canada may SAY no letter is needed. It will be when you get audited. Which happens in almost every ivf claim put forward. Just listen to the sage and wisdom and advice offered you here and figure out how to get the letter. Plain and simple. ASK. Or PAY for the service. Either way stop telling us we are wrong. Otherwise why on earth are you asking for our advice?
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#17 Hopeful Cdn

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 08:20 AM

I already said I can't just go to a civilian doctor, even if I pay for it. They will input my blue cross number and that goes back tot he military, There is no way to do it without the military knowing. If I could just go somewhere and pay for it I would. But I can't. So I am asking for alternatives. I can't get a doctor note from Canada. Period. At least until I am out of the military. The military doc said, they will not refer to a civilian, and I can't just go to a civilian either. So what option do I have?  What about those online doctor things where you pay for a consultation online? Like Just Answer.com or Healthtap? I don't know if I'd be able to get a letter but I'd have the conversation saved. 

 

I am asking because I really need alternatives in my case. I am not trying to ignore what you are saying, I just can't do it.

 

Will an LPN (licensed practical nurse) letter help?

A letter from Citizenship and Immigration Canada?

I CAN get a letter from the doc in India...

 

Is there any doctor you can go to without needing to give your health card info at all? Like maybe a naturopathic fertility place? Would they write something?



#18 quandry

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 08:40 AM

So tell the military. Dealing with infertility is not a atigma. Figure a way to do what you need to do. My exhubby saw civilian Drs as referrals all the time. Just figure out how to do it. Ask. Talk to your CO. The system is hard but NOT impossible. I know. I've been in it.

Just ask at work. More Than once. Be persistent. Speak to Drs. Cos. The secretary at psp. Whomever.

I'm telling you now that while you may not need a Drs note at first, you eventually will. So figure it out.

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#19 eyedoc

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 07:34 AM

As stated above several times, a note from a doctor is required stating why you had to seek treatment elsewhere. It may seem obvious to you why threatment is needed elsewhere, but it is required. My case could not have been more obvious - closest fertility clinic is 2.5 hour drive. Even I needed a letter from a doctor stating why I had to travel for treatment.

The letter required isn't to back up why you did IVF - it is why you had to travel to do IVF. Our letter was like 2 sentences - something along the lines of "required IVF to get pregnant and the closest clinic was 2.5 hours away so travel was required". That is all that was needed.

I know you have states your situation is more complex but CRA will not give a care about that.

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#20 Aiglee

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 08:49 AM

Why can't you go to a doctor and say you don't have a health card or insurance? They should still be able to treat you and charge you. I have seen it in walk-in clinics.


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#21 Hopeful Cdn

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 08:50 AM

Would a letter from a doc on Healthtap work? You can pay like 35.00 for a small consult online there and there's no need to give health cards etc.

 

As a side note, I actually called revenue Canada and they said if you get flagged to provide more information, a letter from myself with evidence should suffice. But I don't want to take chances. The doctors on Healthtap online are actual doctors. I wonder if they would write something quick.



#22 quandry

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 12:07 PM

You'll get different answers from different people. But it's the auditors that will know better. Our letter from cra last year specifically stated that we needed a Drs letter. I think a dr from health tap would work just fine. Glad there's another alternative for you.

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#23 rachfree

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 04:54 PM

Two cents: I've been audited twice for IVF related expenses and I did cycles in Canada. You will have a hard time in your situation. That is pretty much a given.

Before I was a resident here and had a health card, I stated seeing a fertility specialist. I paid out of pocket. They had no problem taking my money. You can most definitely see a doctor without a health card.

Because your husband is in another country doesn't qualify as a medical necessity because they will question why you can't wait until he is here. You need your letter to be about you. Why YOU cant wait medically.

The government doesn't like to be free with money. You need to have your info submitted to not have anything that they can question. That means finding a way to see a dr in person, having your affidavit be spot on, your receipts to have all the information they require to be on it etc....

It took us 3 or 4 times back and forth before they finally gave in and gave us the credit.
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#24 Hopeful Cdn

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 05:42 AM

Why I couldn't wait medically is my AMH is already low and I am 40. Any more wastage of time might have meant no chance at all.

 

As for paying out of pocket to have someone write a letter. I asked at the one Halifax clinic we have. They said it's a minimum of 8-10 months just to get an appointment, and then - they won't write anything unless you sign on with them as a patient. Catch 22.  She said sure we can write you something if you sign on with us... at the full cost of another treatment - which we want up front of course. So the fertility private clinic is not possible. It wouldn't be till after tax time until I'd probably get an appointment anyway.

 

(you'd think if the wait time is THAT long, some other doctors would JUMP on the opportunity to open a new clinic giving the first one some competition??!)

 

I will try Health Tap or similar. 



#25 quandry

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 08:31 AM

It can be a general physician. Doesn't have to be a fertility specialist.

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