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extreme pain during acupuncture...


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#1 sheba

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 09:21 AM

Hi Dr. Yan, thank you so much for your expertise. I had a question for you, I recently tried out two acupuncturists; one in a reputable clinic in Toronto that deals specifically with infertility and the other a doctor who practises by her self. My first and only treatment at the clinic specializing in infertility involved excruciating pain. When the doctor placed needles in my foot and calf I felt this bruning, severe nerve pain that made me break out into a sweat and caused my leg , foot to flex. I had to yell at the doctor to please remove the needles, she finally did after telling me that this was normal as I was tight. The burning sensation remained for a day or two following the treatment. Is such excrucuiating pain normal? I am too terrified to try acupuncture again...
TTC#1 since January 2005
6 IUIs- BFN
IVF 1(one day 3 embyro)-BFN
FET 1 (three day 3 embryos)- BFN
IVF 2 (two day 3 embryos)-BFN
IVF 3 (three day 5 blasts)- BFN
FET 2 (two day 5 blasts)- BFN
IVF 4 (two day 5 blasts) with LIT, IVIg- BFP!!!!
Beta 12dp5dt- 930!!
April 20/11 viability scan- TWINS!! Heart rates of 154 and 143!!
October 21/11- welcome baby girl and baby boy!!

#2

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 07:23 PM

Hi again Sana ( i just wrote to you on another thread!)

I was just wondering if you could let me know where you are going for acupuncture in Toronto?

#3 sheba

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 08:40 AM

Hi there, I tried a very reputable clinic in Toronto called "Total Wellness Centre" (it's at Yonge/Bloor); however the parking and drive down there was horrible (I'm from Mississauga), and the one and only treatment I had here was excruciatingly painful (I cannot describe how bad the pain was). Because of all that I starting going to an acupuncturist in Mississauga, she was more reasonable in price and there was no severe pain invovled (her name is Dr. Chi and she works out of a physician's clinic in Mississauga, with veyr limite hours). I am currently trying to find a new clinic in Mississauga/nearby to have start acupuncture again.
TTC#1 since January 2005
6 IUIs- BFN
IVF 1(one day 3 embyro)-BFN
FET 1 (three day 3 embryos)- BFN
IVF 2 (two day 3 embryos)-BFN
IVF 3 (three day 5 blasts)- BFN
FET 2 (two day 5 blasts)- BFN
IVF 4 (two day 5 blasts) with LIT, IVIg- BFP!!!!
Beta 12dp5dt- 930!!
April 20/11 viability scan- TWINS!! Heart rates of 154 and 143!!
October 21/11- welcome baby girl and baby boy!!

#4 Dr.HongYan

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 10:52 PM

Hi, there are several reasons for pain caused by acupuncture:
from the patient: you are too nerveous and your muscles are all tight. This makes the needle difficult to get into and cause pain; or you moved during the retaining of needle and cause the needle to move...
from the practitioner: the location of the point is a liitle off; the stimulation is too stron

For your next appointment, I suggest you to be more relaxed and remind the practioner that you felt too strong sensation from last time, and ask her to use very mild stimulation. Hopefully it will work out for you.

Hong
Southcentre Chinese Acupuncture
100 Anderson Road SE
Calgary, AB
Canada T2J 3V1
403 271-6662
[email protected]
www.southcentrechineseacupuncture.com

#5

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 11:08 PM

that's very interesting Sana. I went to the same clinic as well. And yes, the parking there is horrible! I tried two different acupuncturists and I'm not sure if I really like either of them.

one - Linda, told me I probably was too focused on my career and it drained all the developmemt and blood to my "brain" and away from my reproductive area, so if I hadn't worked so much...... great, just what I needed to hear! She made me feel kinda crappy about my IF, and she kept insisting I come 2x/week but its costly. Also, she gave me expensive chinese herbal tea. Ugh! But I didn it for 3 months and all a bfn.

I also saw lily- she's not as judgemental but her needles always hurt like she put too much stimulation. I will probably go back to Lily if I don't find an alternative acupuncturist though. I live downtown, so I hope to find another place soon.

Good luck with your treatments!

#6 sheba

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 08:23 AM

Oh my gosh, I went to Linda as well, and it was a horrible experience. I did not like her attitude either; IF is not your fault or because of your career! The last thing we need to feel is guilty when we're going for acupuncture! I tried another acupuncturist and there was no pain, however Im not sure she really knew when she was doing...Good luck! I am also trying to find a good acupuncturist ion the GTA...Which clinic do you go to?
TTC#1 since January 2005
6 IUIs- BFN
IVF 1(one day 3 embyro)-BFN
FET 1 (three day 3 embryos)- BFN
IVF 2 (two day 3 embryos)-BFN
IVF 3 (three day 5 blasts)- BFN
FET 2 (two day 5 blasts)- BFN
IVF 4 (two day 5 blasts) with LIT, IVIg- BFP!!!!
Beta 12dp5dt- 930!!
April 20/11 viability scan- TWINS!! Heart rates of 154 and 143!!
October 21/11- welcome baby girl and baby boy!!

#7

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 10:01 AM

I'm glad to hear from someone else who has seen Linda. I stopped going to acupuncture right now. I just did a lapro and still recovering so I am not cycling right now. I wish my health benefits covered me for more on acupuncture but I already used up everything and was paying out of pocket and boy does the $$ add up fast.

I may try the Canadian Naturpathic Association (or something like that, I casn' remember their exact name) but they are in the east side of Toronto which is close to my office. Their prices seem much more reasonable as well. I got the suggestion from someone on this board that spoke very highly of this place.

The other person who you saw at Total Wellness, was that Lily a younger woman than Linda, Chinese woman?? That's the other person I tried.

#8 Duck

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 11:02 AM

OMG, I can't believe someon told you your IF is all your fault! And she was a TCM practinioner, she should loose her license. I'm surprised she didn't tell you to just relax!

Diagnosed with endometrosis at age 19

5 pelvic surgeries

2 IVF, numerous FETs

2 different gestational carriers

Now mother of 2 year old twins.


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Posted 26 October 2007 - 08:26 PM

Hi there...

I am receiving acupuncture in Toronto by Dr. Bayani at Avenue and Bloor. She is a chiropractor, however, is very kind and spends lots of time with me to ensure that we are doing the correct points for the different stages of the cycle. I feel that her rates are very reasonable, and I have never experienced 'pain' although there have been times that the needles feel 'uncomfortable'.

I hope this helps.

Heather

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 08:50 PM

Oh the TCM acupunturist did tell me to relax as well. And said if I didn't concentrate on work for so many years, I might not have this problem (not in those works exactly, but implying the same thing). Then she had all sorts of diet restrctions and very expensive chinese herbal tea. Which I took and followed all her advice anyways, just in case it would work but it didn't. But I still would like to do acup.

Heather- is Dr Bayani trained on fertility and acup or just acup? Avenue and Bloor is not that far away from me and where I use to go acutallyl Total Wellness center is located by Rosedale subway station off Yonge Street

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 08:59 PM

My sense is that she trained in it but, that she does not do it as often as the other clinic (which I also looked into) ie. it is not the only thing that she practices. My husband has been going to her for years for chiro, so when we started with fertility, I contacted her to ask her questions.

I would think that she would be called a "generalist" but, is excellent and very kind, and from what I can tell, is knowledgable about what the cycles spots are and helps to ease the stress of the entire process. She has encouraged me to come once a week and she will often do stress points as well as fertility points (if that is what they could be called).

I will be able to tell you in the next while if I was successful with her treatment along with the Western medicine as ER should be next week.

Heather

#12 Duck

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 04:33 PM

Not Giving Up,
WOW, sorry to hear you had such a crappy experience with Accu. I've never had pain, just weird electrifying experience when they first put in the needles, after that i find it so relaxing i sleap.....
Hopefully you can find a new practioner,
Nadine

Diagnosed with endometrosis at age 19

5 pelvic surgeries

2 IVF, numerous FETs

2 different gestational carriers

Now mother of 2 year old twins.


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Posted 28 October 2007 - 11:12 AM

thanks hopefulhealther. I would love to know if you are successful and then the name of your practioner.

Duck- It sounds like I had the same kind of feelings as you except the electrigying experience part was painful for that split second, but painful enough, I would cringe or get abit nervouse prior to the insertin on of the needle. Once the needle was in though I would be relaxed ad fall asleep. So maybe this is normal what I felt???

#14 Duck

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 03:39 PM

Hi,
I'm no expert by any means, but, this electrifying feeling was kina nice, but, only because i associate the feeling with it working! And it wasn't for every needle, just some of them, and then sometimes it doesn't happen at all!!
Who knows??
NAdine

Diagnosed with endometrosis at age 19

5 pelvic surgeries

2 IVF, numerous FETs

2 different gestational carriers

Now mother of 2 year old twins.


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Posted 28 October 2007 - 06:54 PM

Yes, I only got the pain in some areas and it wasn't when she put it in. It was when she turned the needle in me! Most of the time it was when she did the foot area or my calf that I felt the pain. I told myself the same thing, no pain no gain! But I don't thin I want to go back to them anyways. I will if I don't find anyone else. Parking is bad, theri bedside manner is bad and they are more expensive than others.
But the up side is that they seem to specialize in fertility issues. So, its a definite draw.

#16 beetlegirl

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 09:54 PM

Oh my gosh I was so relieved to see this thread. I thought I must be crazy to be in so much pain. Everyone goes on and on about how relaxing it is. I am not going back. I couldn't use my hand for the rest of day and into the night. I don't doubt it works for so many but the expience brought me stress and I don't think that is a good way to view it every time I have to go.
Vanessa
TTC: 3 years
Me: 39 DH: 40
3 miscarriages 5 - 8 wks natural
nov '07 IVF #1 chemical PCRM (2 transferred)
none frozen
may '08 IVF #2 ICSI VFC (Victoria)
IvIg - for immune issues
transfered 3 embies
none frozen again
BFP beta 420
twins!!!
2 GIRLS!!! Born Jan 19 - Charlotte and Dahlia
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
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Posted 28 October 2007 - 11:56 PM

hi beetlegirl,
i think it really depends on your acupuncturist The first one I went to the needles didn't hurt but her bedside manner was horrible So sometimes i left there feeling awful because of her comments and not the needles! The second acupuncturist I saw, had better bedside manners but the needles hurt like hell!

Now I need to find someone that has abit of both of these two, good bedside manners and needles that don't hurt. I think for me, it was also the stress of having more needles and I wasn't keen on getting acup if the needles hurt. It was wearing down my limit of pain and tolerance.

You know at the end of the day was best for yourself and what keeps your stress level down. Do you think is best for your sanity!

Good luck cycling

#18 sheba

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 09:27 AM

Hey bettlegirl, I feel the same way! The pain was excruciatng! And having run a few marathons I have a high pain threshold! The worst part was that the acpunctrist did NOT care; as I was sweating and yelling she stood there telling me that I am "too tight and stressed"! The pain was soo bad that I felt nauseous and my leg ached for a day or two..It was totally horriffic, especially since people described it as "relaxing"! I felt like a victim in those "Saw" movies!

Not giving up-- I also felt the pain in my foot/calf; wonder why that area??
TTC#1 since January 2005
6 IUIs- BFN
IVF 1(one day 3 embyro)-BFN
FET 1 (three day 3 embryos)- BFN
IVF 2 (two day 3 embryos)-BFN
IVF 3 (three day 5 blasts)- BFN
FET 2 (two day 5 blasts)- BFN
IVF 4 (two day 5 blasts) with LIT, IVIg- BFP!!!!
Beta 12dp5dt- 930!!
April 20/11 viability scan- TWINS!! Heart rates of 154 and 143!!
October 21/11- welcome baby girl and baby boy!!

#19 beetlegirl

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 01:47 PM

Geez, I thought we could be possibly the strongest people considering what we have gone through and willing to go through so much more.
I mean a marathon runner, wow. I went to a very reputable fertility clinic. He just told me that the points he hit were my stress areas and that I was stressed hence the pain. Yes I am stressed out, trying to jugle all my appointments plus him wanting me to add way more. Oh well, I hope that it will be ok without. If this cycle doesn't work then I'll re-visit.
Not giving up! - I hope you can find the right person with the right balance for you.
Sana - WOW that is awful
good luck to you guys!
TTC: 3 years
Me: 39 DH: 40
3 miscarriages 5 - 8 wks natural
nov '07 IVF #1 chemical PCRM (2 transferred)
none frozen
may '08 IVF #2 ICSI VFC (Victoria)
IvIg - for immune issues
transfered 3 embies
none frozen again
BFP beta 420
twins!!!
2 GIRLS!!! Born Jan 19 - Charlotte and Dahlia
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
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Posted 30 October 2007 - 03:48 PM

well, I just made an appt to see the Canadian Naturopathic Clinic or actually I think its full name is the Robert Schaud Natuopathic Clinic which is a teaching clinic. I have an appt with a naturopathic doc and a 4th year intern. They use TCM and acupunture as part of their remedies, so I hope that I will get a more positive experience!

Will let you know if they are any good. They are located at Sheppard and Leslie.

I have heard good things about this clinic, so I am looking forward to this! My appt though is not until Nov 12 (only because I am out of town next week).

I'm hoping that not only will the needles not hurt as much, but that they can give me a more holistic approach to what I am doing.

Has anyone else gone to a naturopath??

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 08:30 PM

hi there...
I am attending that clinic but, not for acupuncture - to see a nautropath. I like the person that I am working with although I have had 2 appointments and nothing is really moving forward yet. When I tried to book my next appointment I have to wait 3 weeks which is a real disappointment because my person is booked up. I was hoping that I would have some better treatment strategies by now, however, I will try to be patient.

Heather

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 09:02 PM

Hi Heather,
do you think they have some expertise in IF issues?

What is your treatment plan? (if you don't mind me asking) I'm just wondering what it will be like and if its worth my while. This is not covered for me, so I want to make sure that I don't spend my money unnecessarily

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 09:54 PM

sorry for my delayed response...

I just started with the clinic and it has been 5 weeks (only 2 visits) due to lack of availability - so I am not sure what they will say....I was disappointed that there has not been any direction up until now, but, I will return next week, and let you know how it goes....

I believe that they are a teaching institute so you will have generalist, however, they appear to understand the problems and have explained that the 'liver is the conception vessel' so they will focus on ensuring it is functioning to is full potential.

I will keep you posted on the outcome.

H

#24 Duck

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Posted 09 November 2007 - 11:51 AM

Not Giving Up - glad to see that maybe you have found someone for your accu!

I usually don't have any pain but for the past few weeks i had some pain when the needles were put in, put pain isn't even the right word, its like electric shock that moves from the point of the needle and into other parts of the body - really really bizzare!! I can see why this would turn someone from accu for sure!
Hope your apointment goes well,
N

Diagnosed with endometrosis at age 19

5 pelvic surgeries

2 IVF, numerous FETs

2 different gestational carriers

Now mother of 2 year old twins.


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Posted 12 November 2007 - 06:46 PM

Hi guys, I went to the Naturopth today and Heather you are right. THey are generalist but have some background in IF issues. It was a pretty good appt though, very through. But they didn't come up with a plan, they said when I come back they will let me know. But the intern said I seem very healthy. Maybe something with my liver, but he didn't explain what and I forgot to ask. Darn.
I will do my acupuncture there, so hopefully I won;t be in pain.

I have to admit, I was not impressed with the student lab technician. He could not find my vein in either arm and he kept poking me around. The lab tech supervisor could have stepped in and just completed the job, but instead they said they would try again the next time I am in! When thing with all the cycling, I hate all the b/w and needles, so I was not pleased about this. But otherwise, I think the appt went well all considering I have no prototcol from them. So really I don't know why I think the appt went well.

I hope to get an acup unture appt in this week cuz I can't see them next week. So I will let you know if I have pain or not.

Nadine - I know the pain you are talking about. I have experienced it as well. Not sure it its ok or not, one acupturist told me its ok but its not enjoyable to go through. I think y0ou should let your acupunturist know so that they can adjust the treatment and of course, if the pain persists, stop going and find someone else.