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Survival rate of embryos - retrieval to Day 5

data success rate blastocyst

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#1 juvarya8

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 11:57 AM

My husband and I been going to Olive for our IVF treatments. Our initial consultation with the doctor was good, though the information provided was quite high level. For me - someone who is detail oriented and thorough, I don't feel we had enough information provided on our diagnosis and prognosis - we wish we had started IVF sooner. The flipside is that the doctor was not pushy about IVF and that was a good thing as we didn't think they were just trying to take our money.
 
In terms of results, we have had 3 cycles. First we got 4 eggs, 3 fertilized, 1 embryo frozen. Second 7 eggs, 4 fertilized, none survived to Day 5. Third round 10 eggs, 7 fertilized, 1 embryo frozen. This is WELL below average rates for survival of embryos in a lab  - national statistics are 30-50% of mature eggs should make it to blastocyst. Of people I know that go to Olive (three women, 8 cycles) they have ALL had none, 1 or 2 embryos survive ONLY. And they are all different ages with different diagnosis....
 
What was your survival rate for embryos with Olive? I'd love to get some reassurance that they are ABOVE average and not BELOW average with the quality of their lab.....


#2 smurfette_w

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 12:19 PM

It comes down to percentages rather than the absolute number.  I think you can expect to lose up to half the embryos from day 3 to day 5, but that really depends on a number of factors, usually egg quality and genetics if they survive to day 3 but not to day 5.  I remember there was a forum discussion about this, but I can't seem to find it right now.  I'll look again tonight.  For me, my cycles looked like this:

 

Cycle #1 (age 34, male factor and genetics) - this was at Genesis

Retrieved 13, 8 fertilized, 5 embryos on day 3, 4 embryos on day 5.  Transferred 1 embryo on Day 5 and gave up on the rest because of genetics issues.  Had my DD from the lone embryo.

 

Cycle #2 (age 36) - this was at Olive

Retrieved 20, 19 eggs mature, 14 fertilized, 13 embryos on Day 3, 5 embryos on Day 5/6, froze all 5 embryos (all genetically normal).  First FET (single) failed, second FET (single) successful, still have 3 frozen.

 

I think my second cycle was more successful than my first even though I was older because I was stimulated properly.  On my first cycle, I was overstimulated (mild OHSS), and only had half the dose for the trigger shot, which (I think) led to less eggs retrieved.  On my second cycle, everything was textbook perfect, had the full trigger shot, I had no OHSS afterwards and felt great in general after ER, unlike my first cycle where I was significantly bloated and in a lot of pain due to the mild OHSS.

 

When I look at your info, I have a few questions.  Did they change your protocol at all from the first or second cycle?  4 eggs retrieved is extremely low but for DOR, that is actually okay.  Getting 7 eggs and 10 eggs retrieved is pretty good considering you have DOR.  How many embryos did you have on Day 3 as opposed to Day 5? 

 

Also, you may want to look into DOR and see what those numbers typically look like.  From what I remember, your numbers are not bad at all.  As for your other friends though, it really depends on the diagnosis, egg and sperm quality, and genetics.  And if they had none survive on Day 5, I'm surprised that the doctors didn't try a Day 3 transfer on their next cycles (unless they were doing CCS/PGD testing, I suppose).  I hope some other Olive patients chime in, but from what I remember, many of them had good numbers.  You can look on the Olive thread and read the signatures of the other patients.

 

https://ivf.ca/forums...girls-and-guys/

 

Good luck!


  • ociwoman likes this

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#3 ociwoman

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 01:22 PM

I would not compare the national stats with your stats given that you have DOR. I believe the national stats reflect all cycles, including women who have perfectly healthy eggs, but their partner may have sperm issues that are overcome with ICSI, for example. So, they are not a good comparator.

 

In my case, we used an egg donor along with my DH's perfect sperm. We got 16 eggs, 14 were mature and 8 made it to Day 5 blasts. That's 57% but with two people with zero fertility issues. With DOR, it is almost impossible to get a lot of day 5 embryos. Some will get one or two to Day 5, if any at all. 

 

Also you need to remember that DOR in one woman may not look the same as in another woman. One woman can have DOR and still be lucky enough to get a few Day 5's. The other woman (like me) may have almost no chance at conceiving with her own eggs. Point is that both women have the same diagnosis, but will have VERY different outcomes.

 

Sorry you are struggling. We've all been/are there. I hope your next attempts bring you your take-home baby.


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#4 Watermelon

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 06:07 PM

20% of mine made it. Technically well below average for someone my age (29) with excellent reserves and a high response to IVF. I don't know if it had anything to do with the lab, the protocol, intrinsic poor egg quality or just bad luck. Maybe a combination of all of the above. It's hard to know from just one cycle.
  • ociwoman likes this

Me -29 31- unexplained poor egg quality. I was told I had endometriomas.....but repeat ultrasounds at other clinics have said no sign of endometriomas. Maybe PCOS-like ovaries, but no PCOS - AMH, AFC are great. No one can explain why my eggs are so poor sad.png

DH 30 - severe teratospermia, count and motility are excellent.

May 2014 - 2.5mg femara - BFN (ovulated night before)

June 2014 - IUI with 5mg femara - BFN (ovulated night before)

August 2014 - IVF with ICSI - Antagonist protocol, 150Bravelle, 75 menopur, stimmed 8 days

- 19 follicles (all 15-22mm at trigger), 12 eggs retrieved, 7 mature,, 5 fertilized with ICSIsad.png

- only 7 mature eggs with an estrogen of 20000?! wtf?! Sigh...Freeze All

-only one BB Blast made it. Freeze "all" became "freeze one". All others arrested between day 3 and 4 sad.png

January 2015 - FET of lone embryo - c'mon little figher

- BFP!!! Beta 1 475 at 10dp5dt , Beta 2 - 1495 at 12dp5dt

Baby boy born Sept 28/15


#5 Merry33

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 07:01 PM

Like the others said - you cannot generalize these things. It will depend on your diagnosis (or -es) and the protocol. I've had very different outcomes in different IVF cycles.

I think the general rule of thumb is that about 50% of the embryos you have on Day 3 will survive to Day 5. I'm not sure what the rate from retrieval to Day 5 is (also, fertilization rates will be hugely different depending on the diagnosis).

 

We never fell into the 'national statistics' either. I'm pretty sure that has nothing to do with the clinic (or lab) but rather with our issues. In fact, we had the same issues with two different clinics (and our most successful cycle was at Olive; however, we also had one really shitty one right after that). We also only ever got Day 5 embryos in one cycle (so, even worse than what you had). I've seen stories of many different women on here who had the same issue, and they went to different clinics. And the Olive thread has many women who have been very successful there.

 

I get your frustration - I've had enough of that too (with both clinics we've been to). But I really don't think that Olive has a lower quality lab than other Canadian clinics.



#6 Angie1981

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 08:42 PM

I have had one cycle, had 11 retrieved 9 were mature and 7 made it to day 5 I was 32 at the time. I really feel like most of the well known clinics are all about the same with the science its more about the underlying issues. They all use very similar protocols. Even though I got 7 eggs I have transferred 5 and still don't have a baby. At first I was looking for answers and wanted to someone to blame but in the end most of the woman I talked to who have had multiple transfers and have been successful say its mostly a numbers game.


  • ociwoman likes this

Journey started May 23, 2010

First IUI August 2013-BFN

2nd IUI September 2013-BFN

3rd IUI October 2013-BFN

4th IUI November 2013 -BFN

 

1st IVF June 2014

Started on BCP May 15

Started Stimulation June 3

Retrieved 11 eggs 9 mature

9 fertilized and 9 going strong

ET Wed June 18-BFN

 

1st FET middle of September

Transfer September 24 2 5day 4BB embbryos

OCt. 6 BFP HCG 785

Oct. 8 HCG 2500

Oct. 10 HCG 400

Miscarriage devestated


#7 mmonkey

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 08:01 PM

In my opinion I think they have a very high quality lab. Aren't they the newest in BC? Their physicians are among the most innovative in the field and I just don't think they would cut corners. Dr. Hitkari teaches UBC med students (including me!) and Dr. Yuzpe has always been a Canadian leader in research. I know the others have similarly impressive backgrounds.

 

My cycle there resulted in 6 frozen 5D from 21 eggs but I'm not sure about the sperm quality. My cycles at VFC were 28 retrieved  and 9 to day 5, 27 retrieved and 5 to day 5. Note these are all using different sperm.

 

I will most likely do another cycle OR egg freezing, and I will be going with them. I like their meds protocol the best and I think their lab is top-notch.


  • waitingforbfp likes this

3x donor. All 3 families I have helped successful. 

At the age of 36, I have to retire my ovaries NOPE! Doing one more "fertility preservation" cycle just in case I'd like to use my own eggs someday. If I don't use them by 45 or so I'll give them to someone else.

 

I still think this is the best thing I have done with my life. I wonder if I can do anything to top it! I'll be a doctor soon so I hope I will.

 

I felt so blessed to respond to the meds and be able to share this part of me with others. I feel a real kinship to this community and love doing what I can to help others. 

Currently very busy working on my MD but please PM questions

 


#8 sunshine09

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 02:29 AM

The % making it to 5/6 day blastocyst is very dependent on patient and treatment factors: age, reason for infertility, egg quality, sperm quality, cycle protocol, etc, as others have echoed. I had 18 retrieved, 16 mature, 16 fertilized by ICSI, and 10 make it to expanded blasts by day 5/6. That being said, I still had a chemical pregnancy but that has absolutely nothing to do with the lab/clinic... and I am hoping for success with my FET cycle.


  • waitingforbfp likes this

Me 29, idiopathic anovulation/amenorrhea (not PCOS), DH 30, morphology 3%

TTC since March 2014 - Ovulation induction with clomid BFN, letrozole no ovulation

IVF cycle #1 - chemical pregnancy

FET cycle #1  - chemical pregnancy

See my profile for details

 

FET Cycle #2

Jun 8 2015 - CD1, start Estrace

Jun 21 2015 - lining check

Jun 26 2015 - embryo transfer, Day 6 4BA and Day 5 4BB

Jul 4 2015 - 8dpt beta 455

Jul 6 2015 - 10dpt beta 1620 

Jul 10 2015 - 14dpt beta 12185

Jul 12 2015 - 16dt beta 29872, 5 week scan for bleeding, 2 gestational & yolk sacs

Jul 20 2015 - Baby A 6wk1d 114 bpm, Baby B 6wk3d 119 bpm

July 30 2015 - Baby A 7wk5d 167 bpm, Baby B 8wk 172 bpm

Aug 6 2015 - Baby A 8wk6d 172 bpm, Baby B 9wk 176 bpm


#9 pcanoe

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 01:08 AM

Through Olive I had a really high percentage of my embryos survive, I had 33 retrieved, 30 mature, 25 fertilized with ICSI and frozen. Though I have not had the CCS testing. I've had two transfers so far and no luck yet. Best of luck to all!

TTC since Oct 2012

IUI # 1 June 2015 - BFN

IVF # 1 Sept 2015 - 33 eggs retrieved, 30 mature, 25 fertilized with ICSI & frozen

FET # 1 Oct 2015- 1 embryo transferred - BFN

FET # 2 Dec 2015 - 1 embryo transferred - th_abfp.gif

Beta 12 dp5dt 95

Beta 19 dp5dt 2904

Beta 23 dp5dt 6984

Beta 26 dp5dt 200

Misscarried at 6 weeks 8388.gif

Planning to transfer 2 embryos Spring 2016

FET # 3 - Mar 31 2016 transferred 2 embryos both 5 day 4BB's

Beta Apr 11 crsd.gif

Beta 12dp5dt 191 yahoo.gif th_abfp.gif

Beta 14dp5dt 642

 

Beta 19dp5dt 5133

Heartbeat measuring 86 bpm @ 6w0d

8w5d u/s shows no heartbeat cry.gif 8388.gif

7 frosties of 8 tested normal w/ CCS

FET # 4 - Nov 1, 2016 transferred 2 embryos both 5 day 4BB's (CCS tested)

Beta Nov 14 crsd.gif

 

Beta 13dp5dt 925  yahoo.gif th_abfp.gif

Beta 15dp5dt 2301

 

Beta 20dp5dt 20936

6w4d u/s shows twins hb's of 115 &122


#10 waitingforbfp

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 11:31 AM

My first cycle was with the Dr's at Genesis. I only had 5/20 embryos make it to blast/freeze (34YO). Second retrieval was with Olive and had 11/17 make blast (36YO).....much better outcome for me at Olive. But still waiting on my take home baby. 


Me-38 DH- 42

TTC since 2000
Unexplained Secondary Infertility (Had a son while a teen and gave him up for adoption)
March 2000- M/C @ 11 weeks
January 2001- M/C @ 9 weeks
February 2003- M/C @ 8 weeks
2004-2007- 6 Cycles of clomid and natural conception- BFN
November 2009- IUI with injectables- BFN
February 2010- IUI with injectables- BFN
May 2012-Consult with KRF. Re-due blood tests and prep for IVF
June 2012-Started taking Estrace for estrogen priming protocol
Blood test to see why af hasn't started. BFP with low numbers. Chemical Pregnancy
IVF#1 (KRF/Genesis)--July 29, 2012- Estrogen Priming Protocol
August 19-Egg Retrieval 20 eggs; 18 fertilized; 11 made it to Day 5
August 24- Transferred 1 Blast; Froze 4 (the rest didn't make it overnight to Day 6)
Sept 2-Took HPT (Faint Positive)
Sept 5-Beta 3 (BFN--Another Chemical)
FET#1(KRF/Genesis)-Oct 30 2012 On Estrace and Prednisone. Transferred 2 blasts (Had to thaw 3-one didn't make it. One left in the freezer)
Nov 13 2012- Beta- BFN

FET#2(KRF/Genesis) -Nov 16,2013 BETA Nov 27--Chemical Pregnancy 

 

IVF#2 (KRF/Olive)Consult Jan 27. (Doing CCS & immune treatments this cycle)

Estrogen Priming Starts February 19, 2014 YAY!!!!

STIMS START March 1, 2014

Retrieval Mar 13, 2014. 17 eggs retrieved, 16 of which mature and 15 fertilized. 

11 made it to blast and were biopsied and frozen. 5 NORMAL BLASTS yahoo.gif

FET with next af (transfer May, hopefully). 

FET transfer with One Normal Perfect Embryo May 15, 2014

5dp5dt--Faint positive on hpt. Darker on 6dp5dt yahoo.gif

BETA--May 26, 2014 (FX this is it)

ANOTHER F**KING chemical--beta 21 th_agrr.gif

FET#2--Lining scan on July 15. Lining at 10mm and dominate follicle is at 19mm. Waiting on ovulation to time transfer. Here we go again. FX this is it!!!

TRANSFER July 21, 2014--1 PGS Normal Blast

8th confirmed Chemical

 

LOOKING FOR A SURROGATE. Still have 3 PGS normal embryos frozen.

Trying again with my body......'initial' consult is April 14

 


#11 B8B9A4

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 01:02 AM

I just did a cycle at Olive. We chose to do CCS, I only had 4 mature eggs after retrieval and three fertilized. Was super worried everyday looking up rates of them surviving to Day 3, Day 5 etc... reading all the statistics like the percentage that don't make it from the first to last day made me super anxious. Miraculously all 3 survived until Blast and I was ecstatic and feeling great. Froze and waited for transfer next month But unfortunately, doctor called and CCS revealed the same abnormalities in all which leads doctor to suspect why we have not been able to conceive naturally. DH and I are to be Karyotype tested for translocation... not sure what to expect next.  



#12 alemia

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 06:57 PM

had pretty poor results the first time.. I spoke to the Lab  (a great guy who took time to call me on his holiday!) who said that the second protocol would be based on the learning from the first ..and that Dr H is well versed in his field. Dr H was away for some of my treatment last time too, and I know he will be around this time, so I'm hoping that he will be more hands on this time.. Last time I had nearly all my eggs as not mature enough when harvested... - it was a big blow, then the remaining few were not great, did not make it....In the end we only had one embryo even survive - I had a fresh transplant although the embryo was actually not that great so I think they might have known it was not a good chance...

 

sad just remembering this..I'm not sure if the trigger was too early or late or whether I was over or under stimulated...didn't get that information but trusting that Dr H and his team is taking care of it for me now that I've gone through this once..so stressful but this time hopeful and glad Dr H will be around!...



#13 smurfette_w

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 12:12 AM

had pretty poor results the first time.. I spoke to the Lab  (a great guy who took time to call me on his holiday!) who said that the second protocol would be based on the learning from the first ..and that Dr H is well versed in his field. Dr H was away for some of my treatment last time too, and I know he will be around this time, so I'm hoping that he will be more hands on this time.. Last time I had nearly all my eggs as not mature enough when harvested... - it was a big blow, then the remaining few were not great, did not make it....In the end we only had one embryo even survive - I had a fresh transplant although the embryo was actually not that great so I think they might have known it was not a good chance...

 

sad just remembering this..I'm not sure if the trigger was too early or late or whether I was over or under stimulated...didn't get that information but trusting that Dr H and his team is taking care of it for me now that I've gone through this once..so stressful but this time hopeful and glad Dr H will be around!...

 

Good luck!  From what I remember, the RE who does your u/s during cycling will adjust your meds according to the number follicles, follicle size, and blood tests, but your RE (Dr. H) will decide which protocol to do, so Dr. H might not necessarily look at your meds while cycling and he doesn't really have to be there while you are cycling.  I've had a great experience will all of the REs there though, and would have no hesitation to follow their recommendations while you are cycling.


  • alemia likes this

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#14 alemia

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 01:45 PM

Got it - thanks smurfette ! ajigl.gifpreggo.gif


  • smurfette_w likes this





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