13 replies to this topic

[TryingForOur2ndChild]

Hello ladies....

I was wanting to know if any of you would be willing to share any knowledge or experience you have with any form of immune testing to rule out if the body is rejecting an embryo or causing miscarriages. What info did your clinic give you and could you specify what testing was needed to gain results. Also I know that some clinics place patients on meds like steroids to eliminate rejection... any knowledge of absolutely anything in this area would be appreciated.

 

Thanks!

[gibasgirl]

Hello Trying,

I have done immune testing in the past.

Immunological factors are not widely accepted by REs as being a factor in pregnancy loss. There are clinics that accept it as being a factor, though.

I did some testing in Canada; some of my results came back normal and some were not, but the local RE was not very familiar with the protocols and concluded that everything was normal.

I cycled in the States and had some testing done through the RIA labs in California and several immune issues came to light.

I was on steroids, intralipids, Lovenox, and a few other things that I can't remember at this time. My cycles, unfortunately, did not work out.

I cycled more recently at Markham and they work closely with the Alan E. Beer Centre and my husband and I did an immune work-up. (LIT, Lovenox, Humira, IVIG, steroids, baby aspirin, Metformin. Although I don't think that the Metformin was for immune issues, per se, but I was on it.)

I got pregnant, but miscarried.

I am not a good example, but I personally know several women who got pregnant and had children after undergoing immune treatments.

All thr best to you.

[gibasgirl]

The Alan E. Beer website http://www.repro-med.net/

The website for Dr. Beer's book http://www.babyfriendlybook.com/

[north]

Hi Trying,

I'm newly with SIRM in the states and recently got my results that I have elevated natural killer cells (NKC's). 

On it's own, elevated NKC's can impact successful implantation of any embryo (i.e. my own eggs or not). In my case, the treatment will be intralipid infusion before embryo transfer and then after a positive pregnancy test. 

All this immune stuff is very new to me but thought I'd just post this little bit I've learned. Here's a link to a research study by the lab that did my testing: 

http://reprosource.c...on-nk-activity/

Best,

north

[TryingForOur2ndChild]

Thanks ladies for your info and links... very appreciated!

My RE wasn't interested in testing for NK cells, but I was able to get him to test for ANA and Antiphaspholipid A6 Syndrome. Have any of you ladies had either of these tests done? I think I will push again for the NK cells test as I'd rather be proactive rather than reactive.

 

Do either of you know if a high estrogen levels (over 14,000 pmol/L) for a FET can cause poor outcomes?

[amazing grace]

Trying,

 

There is a RPL Panel that tests for all immune related issues. If you are in Ontario, most are not covered by OHIP. If you want the list just message me and I will give you the name of the tests. Also, most RE's in Ontario don't support the theory of NK cells but I still pushed for it. There are two tests, one is the target 562 test and the other is done through an endometrial biopsy. Apparently there are two types of NK cells, in the blood and in the uterus. The uterus cells are only active during certain times.

 

 Hope it helps!

[north]

Thanks ladies for your info and links... very appreciated!

My RE wasn't interested in testing for NK cells, but I was able to get him to test for ANA and Antiphaspholipid A6 Syndrome. Have any of you ladies had either of these tests done? I think I will push again for the NK cells test as I'd rather be proactive rather than reactive.

 

Do either of you know if a high estrogen levels (over 14,000 pmol/L) for a FET can cause poor outcomes?

I was tested for anti-thyroid antibodies and anti-phospholipid antibodies and was negative for both. 

As far as high estradiol levels and FET outcomes ~ I don't know about that. I can't imagine it would make a difference but I don't know that for sure. 

[IHaveTime]

Hi there,

If the purpose of your immune testing is to rule out if the body is rejecting an embryo or causing miscarriages, my2cents: dont' waste your time; go with the best and most advanced available rather than relying only on info that you clinic gives you.  I had 5 miscarriages in 2 years and my fabulous RE (yes, she is a wonderful person, and a fabulous doctor if your case fits the outdated textbooks.) back then wouldn't even entertain anything "immune", while not being able to offer any explanations or solutions. She ordered all the "traditional" immune testing all came back negative. I also had two consulations with MFC and didn't feel that they understood the immune issues as Dr. Braverman does. MFC basically said that they don't understand the test results from Reprosource (the lab Dr. Braverman uses) and will not use it and will not carry out Dr. Braverman's protocol. I didn't choose A.E.Beer centre because I didn't like that cookie cutter approach and I know so many cases of miscarriage under A.E.Beer centre's care (from real life and from multiple forums). You can go to Dr. Braverman's website to see the RPL panel he orders (less than $2,000 for complete testing).

I feel that I had wasted so much time (had too much faith) with my previous RE. Currently, I am with New Life and on Neupogen (not wash, but injection), Lovenox, Prednisone and Intralipid. I am hoping to have a good result this time.

 

All the best to you!

[TryingForOur2ndChild]

Thanks ladies for all your useful information! I went back to my RE and said that we are torn ethically to use up our last two embryos without looking futher into any other issues that may be going on. I guess I'd rather have less regrets ahead of time than always wonder if the embryos would have been viable ones.... and that's something I'd rather not have if I can help it. My RE is willing to get the testing kit shipped from Markham and then sent to Alan E. Beer Center and they are currently looking into how that would all play out. Though I have some questions for you ladies......

 

IHaveTime - Is Dr. Braverman's website link and the RPL panel info what's on the left side? http://www.preventmi...m/About-Us.aspx

 

Ladies - do you mind me asking how much roughly you paid for the RPL panel or immune testing and is it in US or CAN currency?

 

Thanks again!

[IHaveTime]

Yes, you have the right website.

If you have time read through Dr. Braverman's answers, he advises figuring out all the issues then do the transfer (you think like him), rather than "just try it", as most REs like to suggest. And I think most REs are too quick to use poor egg quality or genetic abnormality as explanations of infertility or RPL.

I am not trying to promote him, but you can try the 10 minutes free consultation he offers over the phone or skype. Most of his patients love him and hate his expensive fees (myself included).

http://www.preventmi...ormalities.aspx

http://www.preventmi...gg-Quality.aspx

Good luck with everything!

[TryingForOur2ndChild]

Yes, you have the right website.

If you have time read through Dr. Braverman's answers, he advises figuring out all the issues then do the transfer (you think like him), rather than "just try it", as most REs like to suggest. And I think most REs are too quick to use poor egg quality or genetic abnormality as explanations of infertility or RPL.

I am not trying to promote him, but you can try the 10 minutes free consultation he offers over the phone or skype. Most of his patients love him and hate his expensive fees (myself included).

http://www.preventmi...ormalities.aspx

http://www.preventmi...gg-Quality.aspx

Good luck with everything!

 

IHaveTime - have you personally done his free consultation? If so does he even go into what protocol they would use for you? The only concern I have is that there's no way at this point we'd look at going to a New York clinic, but rather would like to know what protocol or immune tests might be best for me. Does he do that or is it more a quick info session about what his clinic offers?

[IHaveTime]

Hi Trying,

I haven’t done his free 10-min consultation. I stumble upon him in the middle of my mad and hopeless search for answers right after my 5^th miscarriage. Everything happened to me made sense after I read through his website, along with SIRM and A.E.Beer. I acted quickly and just started my full consultation with Dr. Braverman. In my case, I was tested (some multiple times) for everything else before going to Dr. Braverman. In your case, it may not be the case and you don’t want to go through extensive immune testing only to find out that’s not really the issue. From extensive browsing his website and two 1:1 consultations, I know almost 100% sure that he will NOT go into the protocol at all in the 10 minutes. He bases his protocol on the lab results, which takes about 5 weeks to come back. He wouldn’t even go into protocol during the 1^st full consultation before lab results are back to him. I suspect that in the 10 minutes, he will give you a quick estimate of what he thinks the issues are and then ask you to book a full consultation.

I am only doing natural cycles so I am not sure whether he will coordinate IVF cycles with your local RE, if you are sure that local RE will do it for you (my previous one refused to be part of it and I was lucky to find Dr. Soliman). You can ask Dr. Braverman even just through his forum. I know we are all competing with time. In my case, a few months waiting for the test results and the opportunity to talk to a real expert seemed insignificant comparing to the time wasted with mediocracy, not to mention the heartache.

[TryingForOur2ndChild]

Hi Trying,

I haven’t done his free 10-min consultation. I stumble upon him in the middle of my mad and hopeless search for answers right after my 5^th miscarriage. Everything happened to me made sense after I read through his website, along with SIRM and A.E.Beer. I acted quickly and just started my full consultation with Dr. Braverman. In my case, I was tested (some multiple times) for everything else before going to Dr. Braverman. In your case, it may not be the case and you don’t want to go through extensive immune testing only to find out that’s not really the issue. From extensive browsing his website and two 1:1 consultations, I know almost 100% sure that he will NOT go into the protocol at all in the 10 minutes. He bases his protocol on the lab results, which takes about 5 weeks to come back. He wouldn’t even go into protocol during the 1^st full consultation before lab results are back to him. I suspect that in the 10 minutes, he will give you a quick estimate of what he thinks the issues are and then ask you to book a full consultation.

I am only doing natural cycles so I am not sure whether he will coordinate IVF cycles with your local RE, if you are sure that local RE will do it for you (my previous one refused to be part of it and I was lucky to find Dr. Soliman). You can ask Dr. Braverman even just through his forum. I know we are all competing with time. In my case, a few months waiting for the test results and the opportunity to talk to a real expert seemed insignificant comparing to the time wasted with mediocracy, not to mention the heartache.

 

Can I ask how much he charged for one consultation and for how long the consultation was for?

My current clinic is willing to do the immune testing and ship it off to Alan E. Beer but just waiting on what exact tests my RE would run. I'm on the fence with testing right now because I want to ensure if we are doing this the issues will be addressed IF there are issues, and secondly because I'm PCOS ovaries part of me is wondering if part of our issues were due mainly to egg quality because of my protocol. I don't mind paying the money for testing if I know it will be addressed here, otherwise what in heck do I do with test results that no one will follow or listen to... sigh.

[IHaveTime]

I am sorry for the frustration. We all know it too well.

I went back to my record, consultation was $650 (covers initial consultation and follow-up after lab results), the full lab testing was $2,239. If you choose to go with him, then $3,000 cycle management fees (covering 3 cycles) but $650 were subtracted. I don’t think he will give you the protocol before you pay for your cycle management fees.

I just found on his website “In most cases, we will coordinate a Frozen Embryo Cycle immune management with your local IVF center”, so that answered some of your questions.

Sorry to throw more info at you, just a link http://www.preventmi...thyroid-33.aspx  again from his website.