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Thin uterine lining

lining thin uterine lining uterine thin failed ivf

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#76 rollergirl

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 11:31 PM

Hi jodycer,

I have to say that reading your post and history sure made my blood boil. You've had two canceled cycles due to thin lining and your clinic sure is taking a laid-back attitude. Have you done anything different from the cancelled cycles this time to improve lining thickness?

I give the following advice to all gals who've had trouble with thin lining: the optimal chance of am embryo implanting is when the lining is between 9 and 14mms. Anything below or above that and chances of implantation and live birth decrease. The research to date is very clear on this.

Sadly, it is a common practice for North American clinics to set the cut-off for cancelling a cycle at anything below 7mm. It's not that there is zero chance of implantation at 7, but likelihood is reduced. The clinics abhor cancelling cycles as this reflects poorly in their reported statistics (success rates include all STARTED cycles, regrdless of cancellation). They would rather take the chance that the embryo will implant at 7mm (since SOME will) than cancel the cycle and reduce their success rate. Also, patients are never satisfied when a cycle is cancelled, so they set the bar for cancellation lower than the optimal measurement for higher rates of implantation. Sad but true.

So my advice is NEVER to transfer below 9mms. You risk wasting perfectly good embryos. You have control over whether to transfer or not, even though your clinic will push back. Stay strong!

For your current cycle, how many days into your cycle are you? If you are more than 10 days in and you are at only 6mms, then you should speak to your RE about doing something different now. Otherwise, you risk not getting to at least 9mms.

If your clinic brushes you off, consider another clinic or at least another RE. With two cancelled cycles under your belt, they should be doing things differently instead of more of the same.

Wishing you tons of luck. And btw, my history is very similar to yours. I only had success when I transferred with a lining above 9mm. Gave us our little girl.

What works for one woman may not work for another...I always had trouble getting a thick lining....and my doctor put in 3 5 day blasts when my lining was 6.7 and I had identical twins....and I think only once I had a lining over 8 mm...and that was a bust....so go with your gut and if the embryo is strong enough they will find room to "dig in".....


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#77 Graceland

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 04:36 PM

jodycser, any update? I've been thinking about you.

I'm scheduled to have an "EndoSee" hysteroscopy next week, to see whether my thin lining issues could be related to a physical problem with my uterus. I had a D&C in 2013, so it's possible I have scarring that may be the root cause, although I sincerely hope not. Provided we get the "all clear", we're set to try a Tamoxifen-based protocol sometime in March. I'll be sure to post any updates as they arise.

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#78 jodycser

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 04:47 PM

Hey Graceland - I'm actually sitting here waiting for my beta results right now. Pretty sure it's going to be positive as I have been taking HPT's since 5dp5dt and getting positives that are getting darker by the day. Pretty sure at this point I will get the call tomorrow...they like to make us suffer as much as possible I think 😖
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ET Aug 2014 - 19 retreived, 6 made to 5 day blasts - sent to PGD Lab (freeze all)...4 blasts good to go!

November 2014 - 1st FET cycle...cancelled due to bad uterine lining

December 2014 - 2nd FET cycle....cancelled due to bad uterine lining

February 2015 - 3rd FET cycle...uterine lining got to 0.8mm...transferred 2 blasts...BFN

June 2015 - 4th FET cycle (only 1 blast left to transfer...one didn't make it through thaw).....we'll see...nope BFN

Oct 2015 - 31 retrieved, 8 made to 5 day blasts - sent to PGD Lab (freeze all)....6 blasts good to go!

Jan 2016 - 5th FET cycle...lining got to 6.5mm, not great, but Dr seemed confident...transferred 2 blasts...just waiting...finished waiting

Beta #1 13dp5dt 1960 th_abfp.gif yahoo.gif

Beta #2 18dp5dt 14,950 th_aholysheep.gif

 


#79 Graceland

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 05:10 PM

Hey jodycser, that's wonderful news! A cautious congratulations to you. I feel hopeful knowing your 6.5 mm lining worked! Best of luck with your beta results. Hopefully you get the call soon!

Twin girls born December 2017 after 7 years of TTC

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#80 jodycser

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 06:14 PM

Got the call this afternoon and the beta came back at 2000! Apparently a thin lining can work!...now to hold the little thing in there
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ET Aug 2014 - 19 retreived, 6 made to 5 day blasts - sent to PGD Lab (freeze all)...4 blasts good to go!

November 2014 - 1st FET cycle...cancelled due to bad uterine lining

December 2014 - 2nd FET cycle....cancelled due to bad uterine lining

February 2015 - 3rd FET cycle...uterine lining got to 0.8mm...transferred 2 blasts...BFN

June 2015 - 4th FET cycle (only 1 blast left to transfer...one didn't make it through thaw).....we'll see...nope BFN

Oct 2015 - 31 retrieved, 8 made to 5 day blasts - sent to PGD Lab (freeze all)....6 blasts good to go!

Jan 2016 - 5th FET cycle...lining got to 6.5mm, not great, but Dr seemed confident...transferred 2 blasts...just waiting...finished waiting

Beta #1 13dp5dt 1960 th_abfp.gif yahoo.gif

Beta #2 18dp5dt 14,950 th_aholysheep.gif

 


#81 Melody1

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 05:26 PM

Hey there PrincessPariz,  i have also had an annoyingly thin lining and have had the last 2 fets postponed because of it. In my fet in November it got to something like 5.5mm and it needs to be 7mm for a transfer at my clinic. So my doc and i decided to try pentoxifylline + vitamin e. I took that for all of November and December and then went back in January for an endometrial scratch on around cycle day 27-my lining was at 8.5mm which is pretty awesome for me. So then we started to do a medicated fet in january but I think I'm like you in that I just don't seem to respond to non-natural estrogen. My lining didnt get to more than 6mm so we cancelled the cycle yet again and are gonna try a natural fet this month and hopefully the pentoxifylline + vitamin e will help (as it seemed to have done in the natural cycle before we tried the medicated fet), so that is one more option you could try...there isn't too much info out there about it, but it essentially works in the same way as viagra but just not as quickly so you have to take it over a couple of months at least... I'm also gonna try tamoxifen this month with the hope of boosting it even more but if it just gets to 7-7.5mm I'll be happy! Viagra (oral) also worked for me in an fet in October and I got to 8.4mm but then for some reason it stopped working after that.... Thin lining is SUCH a frustrating problem :/ 


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#82 If at first

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 09:29 PM

Hey there PrincessPariz,  i have also had an annoyingly thin lining and have had the last 2 fets postponed because of it. In my fet in November it got to something like 5.5mm and it needs to be 7mm for a transfer at my clinic. So my doc and i decided to try pentoxifylline + vitamin e. I took that for all of November and December and then went back in January for an endometrial scratch on around cycle day 27-my lining was at 8.5mm which is pretty awesome for me. So then we started to do a medicated fet in january but I think I'm like you in that I just don't seem to respond to non-natural estrogen. My lining didnt get to more than 6mm so we cancelled the cycle yet again and are gonna try a natural fet this month and hopefully the pentoxifylline + vitamin e will help (as it seemed to have done in the natural cycle before we tried the medicated fet), so that is one more option you could try...there isn't too much info out there about it, but it essentially works in the same way as viagra but just not as quickly so you have to take it over a couple of months at least... I'm also gonna try tamoxifen this month with the hope of boosting it even more but if it just gets to 7-7.5mm I'll be happy! Viagra (oral) also worked for me in an fet in October and I got to 8.4mm but then for some reason it stopped working after that.... Thin lining is SUCH a frustrating problem :/

Melody, how much vitamin e were you taking?

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#83 jodycser

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 09:33 PM

Hi everyone, just wanted to pop in and tell you that I also suffered from thin lining...my story is in this thread somewhere. Well I did get pregnant, and because of some bleeding I had on Monday, I had an early ultrasound today (6 weeks 2 days), and I'm carrying twins! They both implanted with a lining of 6.5 so don't give up!
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ET Aug 2014 - 19 retreived, 6 made to 5 day blasts - sent to PGD Lab (freeze all)...4 blasts good to go!

November 2014 - 1st FET cycle...cancelled due to bad uterine lining

December 2014 - 2nd FET cycle....cancelled due to bad uterine lining

February 2015 - 3rd FET cycle...uterine lining got to 0.8mm...transferred 2 blasts...BFN

June 2015 - 4th FET cycle (only 1 blast left to transfer...one didn't make it through thaw).....we'll see...nope BFN

Oct 2015 - 31 retrieved, 8 made to 5 day blasts - sent to PGD Lab (freeze all)....6 blasts good to go!

Jan 2016 - 5th FET cycle...lining got to 6.5mm, not great, but Dr seemed confident...transferred 2 blasts...just waiting...finished waiting

Beta #1 13dp5dt 1960 th_abfp.gif yahoo.gif

Beta #2 18dp5dt 14,950 th_aholysheep.gif

 


#84 Melody1

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 04:50 AM

If at first- I am taking 1000 IU of vitamin e per day (and 2 x 400mg pentoxifyline)



#85 GabyP

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 08:01 AM

I used acupuncture. Not sure if it helped or did nothing, but some research suggests that it does, maybe even just a psychological effect. Also, I stayed very active and worked out to make sure that there is plenty of uterine blood flow. I monitored the lining via ultrasound and it did well and reached a perfect level. Now, it could have been just genetic and would have been fine either way, but I had decided to to a bit of "overkill" and it worked.



#86 Graceland

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 10:30 AM

Hi ladies. A small update from me: I'm about to start a Tamoxifen-based FET cycle. This will be our fourth attempt at a transfer, but first time using Tamoxifen. I haven't been able to get above 6.4 mm in my other attempts. Let's see what happens this time around.

Jodycer, a huge congratulations! Wow... twins! That's fantastic!

Twin girls born December 2017 after 7 years of TTC

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#87 CdnHockeyGal

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 12:59 PM

Good luck Graceland! Fingers crossed for you!
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It was long, awful & hard. We got very lucky and didn't run out of both emotional and financial resources. We saw some of the most beautiful of people in our lowest moments. Baby Girl arrived Apr 10/2018

#88 alma

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 01:18 PM

Hi ladies, I wish to thank you a lot for all the information. I have been struggling myself with thin lining (multiple cycles cancelled with lining < 6 mm). I am 47, I seldom produce follicles now, but I have embryos from age 43-44 which I would like to transfer.

 

I am doing only HRT cycles, and my FSH is naturally very high now.

 

I am now doing my first Tamoxifen cycle, and it looks like a disaster. My suspicion is that I didn't use it properly - started with a very high FSH, and did not increase estradiol intake enough.

 

This is the summary of my cycle:

 

Day 3: FSH 56.98, E2 < 5. Lining 3.1 mm.

Day 3 - Day 9 (7 days): Tamoxifen 20 mg, 2xprogynova vaginally (4mg estradiol valerate)

Day 10: FSH 47.49, E2 47.49. Lining 3.88 mm.

Day 10 - Day 16 (7 days): Tamoxifen 20 mg, 3xprogynova vaginally (6mg estradiol valerate)

Day 17: FSH 52.59, E2 172.6. Lining 3.81 mm.

 

I am now continuing with 3xprogynova vaginally, and will monitor again on Day 24.

 

As you notice, the FSH kept being very high, E2 very low, lining < 4mm. Last month, taking only 3xprogynova for 10 days, I got a lining of 5.2 mm.

 

I would like to ask you if you have any suggestions. If you would have FSH and E2 measurements from successful cycles, this would be very helpful.

 

I did quite a bit of reading about Tamoxifen, and its action is very complex. I suspect that taking it with a high FSH and without enough estradiol, it can act very differently compared to the situation of a low FSH, and steadily increasing estradiol.

 

I should mention that I tried it all, without any success - estradiol patches, viagra, red raspberry leaf, acupuncture, etc. My lining is always stuck below 6mm. Hysteroscopy revealed a pale endometrium, but there are no lesions that would prevent it from growing - the doctor said that it just looks like estradiol deficiency, nothing else.

 

Thanks a lot for any suggestions...



#89 CdnHockeyGal

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 01:27 PM

Have you tried vaginal estrodial?  Injectable estrodial?


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#90 alma

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 02:31 PM

Yes, I took progynova vaginally (including this cycle). I haven't tried injectable estradiol.

 

I preferred to try tamoxifen, since it seemed to work universally, except for me. :-D Also, I don't think I can buy injectable estradiol in my country, so the logistics would be a bit more complicated.



#91 CdnHockeyGal

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 04:17 PM

I've never done tamoxifen but I have done compounded viagara (sildenifil) with terbutaline and that worked for me.


It was long, awful & hard. We got very lucky and didn't run out of both emotional and financial resources. We saw some of the most beautiful of people in our lowest moments. Baby Girl arrived Apr 10/2018

#92 Graceland

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 04:56 PM

Alma, I don't have any advice to share just yet, as I'm only 3 days into my first ever Tamoxifen-based cycle. I'm nervous I'm going to be like you - I always seem to fall on the wrong side of the odds! I'll be sure to update this thread as my cycle progresses. I really empathize with your experience. A thin lining is so frustrating! I, too, was told my endometrium appears pale pink when viewed via hysteroscopy. Sigh. I'm not sure what that means, except presumably that I have poor vascularization. Good luck to you. I really hope your situation changes for the better.

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#93 alma

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 05:12 PM

HockeyGal - thanks for the advice. Viagra made in the pharmacy didn't seem to help me at all... I tried pentoxifylline (terbutaline equivalent) once, and my heartbeat increased a lot, I think this was the reason - so I stopped after the first 2 pills. I might add it in out of dispair again...

 

Graceland - wish you lots of luck with your cycle. I have this high suspicion that my clinic doesn't have extensive experience with tamoxifen, and they should have lowered my FSH first. Also, they seem very, very reluctant to increasing my estradiol dose.

 

In terms of estradiol absorbtion, usually after the first 2 weeks in the cycle, no matter how much estradiol I continue to take, even the level of estradiol in my blood starts going down. I am very bad at absorbing it...



#94 PrincessPariz

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 09:41 AM

Hi everyone, just wanted to pop in and tell you that I also suffered from thin lining...my story is in this thread somewhere. Well I did get pregnant, and because of some bleeding I had on Monday, I had an early ultrasound today (6 weeks 2 days), and I'm carrying twins! They both implanted with a lining of 6.5 so don't give up!


IVF blocked tubes. Started journey to start our family on our wedding day 13.10.12
Started IVF Jan 2014
Had laparoscopy & hysteroscopy March 2015

Have 2 frozen Embryos
On 4th cycle now, though we haven't completed one yet due to poor lining, to thin.
Thin lining issues are driving me mad!
Cycle 1 May 15- lining 6.3 before egg collection-dropped to 3.5 on ET day, fluid. Estrogen tablets didn't work.
Cycle 2 FET lining disappeared by ET day. Up to 4 Estrogen tabs per day for two weeks-nothing worked!
Cycle 3 FET Tamoxifen 20mg cycle Nov-15 5.2mm lining at cd10 no fluid hooray!
Nov 15 cycle abandoned starting again in Dec 15 with double dose tamoxifen -40mg

#95 PrincessPariz

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 09:43 AM

Hi everyone, just wanted to pop in and tell you that I also suffered from thin lining...my story is in this thread somewhere. Well I did get pregnant, and because of some bleeding I had on Monday, I had an early ultrasound today (6 weeks 2 days), and I'm carrying twins! They both implanted with a lining of 6.5 so don't give up!


Amazing news!!!! Congratulations how exciting and really wonderful to hear positive results from thin linings.

I'm starting my 5th protocol cycle now.
I'm doing tamoxifen days 3-7 40mg then menapour 150ml days 5-7-9
Then see where I am. Due for a scan on the 29th which is my cd 10 so hoping for some good news but we will see.
IVF blocked tubes. Started journey to start our family on our wedding day 13.10.12
Started IVF Jan 2014
Had laparoscopy & hysteroscopy March 2015

Have 2 frozen Embryos
On 4th cycle now, though we haven't completed one yet due to poor lining, to thin.
Thin lining issues are driving me mad!
Cycle 1 May 15- lining 6.3 before egg collection-dropped to 3.5 on ET day, fluid. Estrogen tablets didn't work.
Cycle 2 FET lining disappeared by ET day. Up to 4 Estrogen tabs per day for two weeks-nothing worked!
Cycle 3 FET Tamoxifen 20mg cycle Nov-15 5.2mm lining at cd10 no fluid hooray!
Nov 15 cycle abandoned starting again in Dec 15 with double dose tamoxifen -40mg

#96 Graceland

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 09:04 PM

Good luck PrincessPariz! It sounds like we're both trying Tamoxifen around the same time. Keep me posted and I'll be sure to do the same.
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Twin girls born December 2017 after 7 years of TTC

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#97 PrincessPariz

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Posted 26 February 2016 - 04:13 AM

Good luck PrincessPariz! It sounds like we're both trying Tamoxifen around the same time. Keep me posted and I'll be sure to do the same.

Yes I certainly will, I've seen great results already with tamoxifen it did work so fingers and toes crossed for you too.
🙏🏻🙏🏻
IVF blocked tubes. Started journey to start our family on our wedding day 13.10.12
Started IVF Jan 2014
Had laparoscopy & hysteroscopy March 2015

Have 2 frozen Embryos
On 4th cycle now, though we haven't completed one yet due to poor lining, to thin.
Thin lining issues are driving me mad!
Cycle 1 May 15- lining 6.3 before egg collection-dropped to 3.5 on ET day, fluid. Estrogen tablets didn't work.
Cycle 2 FET lining disappeared by ET day. Up to 4 Estrogen tabs per day for two weeks-nothing worked!
Cycle 3 FET Tamoxifen 20mg cycle Nov-15 5.2mm lining at cd10 no fluid hooray!
Nov 15 cycle abandoned starting again in Dec 15 with double dose tamoxifen -40mg

#98 PrincessPariz

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Posted 29 February 2016 - 12:31 PM

So I had my day 10 scan today after taking tamoxifen 40mg days 3-7 and menopur 150ml days 5,7&9.
My lining is thin arrrrrrh!!!!????

It's basically around 4mm there's no fluid which is good but it's not what we were hoping for thickness wise.
Last time I took tamoxifen 40mg days 2-6 only with no menopur and I got to 6.6.
It's a mystery really as I've down regulated in past early cycles with buserelin then taken menopur for egg collection and my lining got to around 6 then so I don't know what to think.

I'm waiting for the sister to speak to our RE and see if he wants me to take the HCG shot or not.

But it's not looking great unless my lining can now quickly increase over the next week it will be another failed protocol.
IVF blocked tubes. Started journey to start our family on our wedding day 13.10.12
Started IVF Jan 2014
Had laparoscopy & hysteroscopy March 2015

Have 2 frozen Embryos
On 4th cycle now, though we haven't completed one yet due to poor lining, to thin.
Thin lining issues are driving me mad!
Cycle 1 May 15- lining 6.3 before egg collection-dropped to 3.5 on ET day, fluid. Estrogen tablets didn't work.
Cycle 2 FET lining disappeared by ET day. Up to 4 Estrogen tabs per day for two weeks-nothing worked!
Cycle 3 FET Tamoxifen 20mg cycle Nov-15 5.2mm lining at cd10 no fluid hooray!
Nov 15 cycle abandoned starting again in Dec 15 with double dose tamoxifen -40mg

#99 CdnHockeyGal

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Posted 29 February 2016 - 04:10 PM

oh wow - sorry Princess Pariz - that's incredibly frustrating.


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It was long, awful & hard. We got very lucky and didn't run out of both emotional and financial resources. We saw some of the most beautiful of people in our lowest moments. Baby Girl arrived Apr 10/2018

#100 Graceland

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Posted 29 February 2016 - 05:49 PM

Argh! I'm frustrated for you. :(

Is it possible it may thicken after a longer period of withdrawal from the Tamoxifen? From what I've read, it seems like initial scans after the Tamoxifen is completed can be thin, but the lining can thicken within 7-10 days afterward. I hope that's the case for you!

I'm struggling with my protocol a bit. My RE has me taking continuous daily 40 mg doses of Tamaoxifen with no endpoint. I'm not sure why I'm not just taking it for days 3-7 (or 5-9). I sure hope he knows what he's doing. I've asked him why he's structured my protocol this way and I have yet to get a response. Sigh. My first lining check is on Wednesday and I'm feeling pretty pessimistic. I'll keep you posted.
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Twin girls born December 2017 after 7 years of TTC

See 'About Me' for full details






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