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Effects of supplements on egg development while on BCP?

BCP DHEA L-Arginine Egg Quality Supplements

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#1 9ay

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 07:27 AM

Hi all,

 

Me RE put me on birth control pill to get rid of the cysts resulted from egg retrieval. I'll be on oral contraceptive for 3 months prior to IVF. At the same time, he suggested me to take supplements to increase egg quality. I am concerned that taking supplements will not have any effect while on BCP.

 

My theory goes like this:

 

Supplements nourish eggs while they are developing. Egg maturation takes 3 months so supplements will show their full effect after 3 months. On the other hand BCP stops follicle development. I think this as BCP freeze the time for maturing eggs. Let’s say today I have 10 eggs ready to be mature this cycle. I have several others at different developmental stages, some will be ready next month and some will be ready the other month and goes on like this. BCP will freeze the time for 3 months and after 3 months I'll have exactly the same 10 eggs ready to be mature, others are developing. Under these circumstances how supplements can help with the egg maturation in 3 months if egg maturation does not take place due to BCP?

 

I will really appreciate if you could help me with this. I am very confused.


VF#1 Oct 2012: Long Lupron Protocol, 13 eggs retrieved, 10 mature, 8 fertilized, 2 transferred at day 3, th_abfn.gif
FET#1 Dec 2012 : 2 transferred at day 3, th_abfn.gif
Changed clinics
IVF#2 Oct 2013: Long Lupron Protocol, 11 eggs retrieved, 8 mature, 7 fertilized, 2 transferred at day 3, 5 cultured to day 5, none made it to blast , th_abfn.gif
IVF#3 Jan 2014: Long Lupron Protocol, 10 eggs retrieved, 7 mature, 5 fertilized, 3 transferred at day 3, yup same story...th_abfn.gif
IVF#4 Jun 2014: Long Lupron Protocol, 8 mature, 3 transferred at day 3, yet another th_abfn.gif
Time to change clinics
IVF#5 Jan 2015: Ultra Long Lupron Protocol (3 months of Lupron Depot therapy prior to IVF), 13 eggs retrieved, 8 mature, 5 fertilized, 2 2BB 5 day blasts with AH transferred
Beta @11dp5dt: 256.9 th_abfp.gif
Pregnant with twins. One stop growing @9 weeks.
TFMR at 21 weeks on 23 Jun 2015. Gave birth to a beautiful angel boy sad.png
IVF#6 Sep 2015 - Trying for my rainbow
Short protocol
Started stims on 31st Aug
ER on 14th Sep, 14 eggs retrieved, 13 mature, 9 fertilised, 6 divided
2 3BA 5 day blasts transferred on 19th Sep
9dp5dt th_abfp.gifyahoo.gif
Beta @11dp5dt: 738
Beta @14dp5dt: 2058 eusa_pray.gif
17dp5dt (5w1d) U/S - 6 mm gestational sac
6w2d U/S - one baby with a strong HB
18th Nov - IPS testing
23rd Nov - Risk of trisomy 13,18 and 21 under 1 in 10,000 in Panorama test
15th Dec - U/S at 15 weeks - Team PINK!

Gave birth on June 2018

 

Trying for no#2

IVF #7 Started stims on 8th of Jul, 300 gonal f + cetrotide + double trigger

ER on 20th July

17 egss retrieved, 15 mature, 12 fertilized

 


#2 Adventure

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 08:26 PM

Unfortunately that's not how it works or else those of us who have been on BCP should be able to have kids at 60 by "freezing the time for maturation".

 

Each month various follicles start to develop, and the biggest one gets ovulated. The other follicles that have developed essentially degrade. This happens every month  so the the 10 follicles that develop while you are on BCP will not be the same 10 follicles in 3 months time. Your BCP just prevents you from ovulating, so you don't get pregnant. Your eggs still mature, and if none ovulate, they degrade until your cycle starts again. So if you take supplements now, it can help the eggs that will mature later on.


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#3 9ay

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 04:57 AM

Thank you very much for your reply.

 

You say eggs still mature but not released while on BCP. But I have a Msc in biology and we were told that the mechanism of action of hormonal contraceptives is to stop egg maturation (so thus ovulation).

 

You don't go into menopause because you ran out of eggs, you go into menopause because your eggs die off. Even if you use BCP until you are 60, even though eggs do not mature for 60 years, they still die off.  So if you stop using BCP at 60, you will find yourself already in menopause.

 

I think this is like someone lacking growth hormones. He would look like a child even though he is old. Eggs do not mature while on BCP but they age and finally die off.

 

I am still struggling with the same question. If eggs do not mature how can supplements help?


VF#1 Oct 2012: Long Lupron Protocol, 13 eggs retrieved, 10 mature, 8 fertilized, 2 transferred at day 3, th_abfn.gif
FET#1 Dec 2012 : 2 transferred at day 3, th_abfn.gif
Changed clinics
IVF#2 Oct 2013: Long Lupron Protocol, 11 eggs retrieved, 8 mature, 7 fertilized, 2 transferred at day 3, 5 cultured to day 5, none made it to blast , th_abfn.gif
IVF#3 Jan 2014: Long Lupron Protocol, 10 eggs retrieved, 7 mature, 5 fertilized, 3 transferred at day 3, yup same story...th_abfn.gif
IVF#4 Jun 2014: Long Lupron Protocol, 8 mature, 3 transferred at day 3, yet another th_abfn.gif
Time to change clinics
IVF#5 Jan 2015: Ultra Long Lupron Protocol (3 months of Lupron Depot therapy prior to IVF), 13 eggs retrieved, 8 mature, 5 fertilized, 2 2BB 5 day blasts with AH transferred
Beta @11dp5dt: 256.9 th_abfp.gif
Pregnant with twins. One stop growing @9 weeks.
TFMR at 21 weeks on 23 Jun 2015. Gave birth to a beautiful angel boy sad.png
IVF#6 Sep 2015 - Trying for my rainbow
Short protocol
Started stims on 31st Aug
ER on 14th Sep, 14 eggs retrieved, 13 mature, 9 fertilised, 6 divided
2 3BA 5 day blasts transferred on 19th Sep
9dp5dt th_abfp.gifyahoo.gif
Beta @11dp5dt: 738
Beta @14dp5dt: 2058 eusa_pray.gif
17dp5dt (5w1d) U/S - 6 mm gestational sac
6w2d U/S - one baby with a strong HB
18th Nov - IPS testing
23rd Nov - Risk of trisomy 13,18 and 21 under 1 in 10,000 in Panorama test
15th Dec - U/S at 15 weeks - Team PINK!

Gave birth on June 2018

 

Trying for no#2

IVF #7 Started stims on 8th of Jul, 300 gonal f + cetrotide + double trigger

ER on 20th July

17 egss retrieved, 15 mature, 12 fertilized

 


#4 Crazy

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 09:32 AM

I think that supplements take some time to build up and reach peak levels in the body. If you are defficient in something that those reserves need to be replenished. Because certain thing are toxic in high doses, or are water soluable and large doses get peed out, you are much better off taking the recommended dose over a longer period of time. That way everything those eggs might need is available to them when it is time for them to mature.

#5 Adventure

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 12:57 PM

Hi 9ay,

 

Eggs still absolutely mature when on BCP  which is why BCP in not 100%. And depending on the BCP it will have varying effects on your menstrual cycle. I assume you are taking something like marvelon (which is mostly an estrogen derivative with a bit of progestin) and not a progestin only BCP so the estrogen in BCP that you are taking is tricking your body into thinking that you have already ovulated. Each month several follicles with primary oocytes in them start to grow (ie mature or age or whatever you want to call it but growing is maturing) . These follicles. as they grow, or mature, then release estrogen. This low level estrogen starts thickening your endometrial lining (which is why your lining starts to get thicker in the proliferative phase of your menstrual cycle) and also negatively inhibits your hypothalamus/pituitary preventing it from releasing LH for ovulation. As more follicles grow (Ie mature) , more estrogen gets released and this higher concentration releases the negative inhibition and causes your hyp/pit to release LH and FSH and then ovulate. When you are on BCP, the constant high concentration of estrogen tricks your body into thinking you've ovulated.

 

And yes, you reach menopause because your eggs die off. But they still grow and mature when on BCP. You can pubmed articles on follicular growth and BCP if you'd like and you will see that BCP does not stop follicle development. The dominant follicle can actually reach 14mm and then regresses on BCP instead of being ovulated. I have a Phd in Biochem, subspecialty Repro sciences  


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#6 9ay

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 03:48 AM

Hi Adventure
Thank you very much for explaninig. I made a pubmed search and found a review on follicular development during use of oral contraceptives. It looks like follicular development is not desired but happens especially during use of OCs with low estrogen and with long hormone free intervals. I understood this as a flawn of BCP. My doctor prescribed DHEA and L-arginine and I really want to give them a try. So do you think that these supplements would help while on BCP assuming that my follicules continue to grow? It is stated in the article that follicular develepment occurs if it starts in hormone free interval. What if it does not? :)


Sorry for asking a lot of questions but I have been non stop TTC since 2.5 years and I do not want to loose my time with wrong decisions (One if my ovaries do not function any more due to doctor's mistake so now I am questioning every thing. )

VF#1 Oct 2012: Long Lupron Protocol, 13 eggs retrieved, 10 mature, 8 fertilized, 2 transferred at day 3, th_abfn.gif
FET#1 Dec 2012 : 2 transferred at day 3, th_abfn.gif
Changed clinics
IVF#2 Oct 2013: Long Lupron Protocol, 11 eggs retrieved, 8 mature, 7 fertilized, 2 transferred at day 3, 5 cultured to day 5, none made it to blast , th_abfn.gif
IVF#3 Jan 2014: Long Lupron Protocol, 10 eggs retrieved, 7 mature, 5 fertilized, 3 transferred at day 3, yup same story...th_abfn.gif
IVF#4 Jun 2014: Long Lupron Protocol, 8 mature, 3 transferred at day 3, yet another th_abfn.gif
Time to change clinics
IVF#5 Jan 2015: Ultra Long Lupron Protocol (3 months of Lupron Depot therapy prior to IVF), 13 eggs retrieved, 8 mature, 5 fertilized, 2 2BB 5 day blasts with AH transferred
Beta @11dp5dt: 256.9 th_abfp.gif
Pregnant with twins. One stop growing @9 weeks.
TFMR at 21 weeks on 23 Jun 2015. Gave birth to a beautiful angel boy sad.png
IVF#6 Sep 2015 - Trying for my rainbow
Short protocol
Started stims on 31st Aug
ER on 14th Sep, 14 eggs retrieved, 13 mature, 9 fertilised, 6 divided
2 3BA 5 day blasts transferred on 19th Sep
9dp5dt th_abfp.gifyahoo.gif
Beta @11dp5dt: 738
Beta @14dp5dt: 2058 eusa_pray.gif
17dp5dt (5w1d) U/S - 6 mm gestational sac
6w2d U/S - one baby with a strong HB
18th Nov - IPS testing
23rd Nov - Risk of trisomy 13,18 and 21 under 1 in 10,000 in Panorama test
15th Dec - U/S at 15 weeks - Team PINK!

Gave birth on June 2018

 

Trying for no#2

IVF #7 Started stims on 8th of Jul, 300 gonal f + cetrotide + double trigger

ER on 20th July

17 egss retrieved, 15 mature, 12 fertilized

 


#7 Adventure

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 05:16 PM

Are you going to be on BCP for three months straight, without placebo pills or break?



#8 sprbaby

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 11:50 AM

In taking bcp before a stim cycle, my RE said that ideal is 3 weeks but no more than 4 because it compromises response (I asked because I was wondering if it would be worth using bcp to delay starting stims by a week or two rather than wait another full unpredictable cycle). So I'd be concerned about taking 3 months worth to shrink the cysts. Then again I've never had a cycle delayed due to cysts.


http://dustyolewombs.blogspot.ca

Dx: Tubal

Me (38) DH (37)

 

IVF Cycle #1

Dec 2013 13 retrieved, 11 fertilized,

day 3: 7 great embryos

day 5: no blasts; transferred 1 morula

day 6: still no blasts, nothing to freeze

day 13: spotting

day 14: BFN

 

IVF Cycle #2 - March 2014

*added 3 months CoQ10 and omnitrope with stims*

Mar 2014: 14 eggs retrieved, 13 fertilized

day 5: two early blasts, both transferred!

day 6: one more blast frozen!

day 14: AF arrived, BFN confirmed on day 16.

 

FET cycle - Nov 2014

transferred one and only frozen blast - BFN


#9 9ay

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 09:15 AM

Are you going to be on BCP for three months straight, without placebo pills or break?

 

I asked this to my RE. He said there will be 7 days drug free interval between each month. One tablet has 30ug estrogen and 75ug progesterone


VF#1 Oct 2012: Long Lupron Protocol, 13 eggs retrieved, 10 mature, 8 fertilized, 2 transferred at day 3, th_abfn.gif
FET#1 Dec 2012 : 2 transferred at day 3, th_abfn.gif
Changed clinics
IVF#2 Oct 2013: Long Lupron Protocol, 11 eggs retrieved, 8 mature, 7 fertilized, 2 transferred at day 3, 5 cultured to day 5, none made it to blast , th_abfn.gif
IVF#3 Jan 2014: Long Lupron Protocol, 10 eggs retrieved, 7 mature, 5 fertilized, 3 transferred at day 3, yup same story...th_abfn.gif
IVF#4 Jun 2014: Long Lupron Protocol, 8 mature, 3 transferred at day 3, yet another th_abfn.gif
Time to change clinics
IVF#5 Jan 2015: Ultra Long Lupron Protocol (3 months of Lupron Depot therapy prior to IVF), 13 eggs retrieved, 8 mature, 5 fertilized, 2 2BB 5 day blasts with AH transferred
Beta @11dp5dt: 256.9 th_abfp.gif
Pregnant with twins. One stop growing @9 weeks.
TFMR at 21 weeks on 23 Jun 2015. Gave birth to a beautiful angel boy sad.png
IVF#6 Sep 2015 - Trying for my rainbow
Short protocol
Started stims on 31st Aug
ER on 14th Sep, 14 eggs retrieved, 13 mature, 9 fertilised, 6 divided
2 3BA 5 day blasts transferred on 19th Sep
9dp5dt th_abfp.gifyahoo.gif
Beta @11dp5dt: 738
Beta @14dp5dt: 2058 eusa_pray.gif
17dp5dt (5w1d) U/S - 6 mm gestational sac
6w2d U/S - one baby with a strong HB
18th Nov - IPS testing
23rd Nov - Risk of trisomy 13,18 and 21 under 1 in 10,000 in Panorama test
15th Dec - U/S at 15 weeks - Team PINK!

Gave birth on June 2018

 

Trying for no#2

IVF #7 Started stims on 8th of Jul, 300 gonal f + cetrotide + double trigger

ER on 20th July

17 egss retrieved, 15 mature, 12 fertilized

 


#10 9ay

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  • Dx:Endometriosis

Posted 12 February 2014 - 09:18 AM

In taking bcp before a stim cycle, my RE said that ideal is 3 weeks but no more than 4 because it compromises response (I asked because I was wondering if it would be worth using bcp to delay starting stims by a week or two rather than wait another full unpredictable cycle). So I'd be concerned about taking 3 months worth to shrink the cysts. Then again I've never had a cycle delayed due to cysts.

 

Hi sprbaby,

I found an article about this: http://haveababy.com...l-prior-to-ivf/


VF#1 Oct 2012: Long Lupron Protocol, 13 eggs retrieved, 10 mature, 8 fertilized, 2 transferred at day 3, th_abfn.gif
FET#1 Dec 2012 : 2 transferred at day 3, th_abfn.gif
Changed clinics
IVF#2 Oct 2013: Long Lupron Protocol, 11 eggs retrieved, 8 mature, 7 fertilized, 2 transferred at day 3, 5 cultured to day 5, none made it to blast , th_abfn.gif
IVF#3 Jan 2014: Long Lupron Protocol, 10 eggs retrieved, 7 mature, 5 fertilized, 3 transferred at day 3, yup same story...th_abfn.gif
IVF#4 Jun 2014: Long Lupron Protocol, 8 mature, 3 transferred at day 3, yet another th_abfn.gif
Time to change clinics
IVF#5 Jan 2015: Ultra Long Lupron Protocol (3 months of Lupron Depot therapy prior to IVF), 13 eggs retrieved, 8 mature, 5 fertilized, 2 2BB 5 day blasts with AH transferred
Beta @11dp5dt: 256.9 th_abfp.gif
Pregnant with twins. One stop growing @9 weeks.
TFMR at 21 weeks on 23 Jun 2015. Gave birth to a beautiful angel boy sad.png
IVF#6 Sep 2015 - Trying for my rainbow
Short protocol
Started stims on 31st Aug
ER on 14th Sep, 14 eggs retrieved, 13 mature, 9 fertilised, 6 divided
2 3BA 5 day blasts transferred on 19th Sep
9dp5dt th_abfp.gifyahoo.gif
Beta @11dp5dt: 738
Beta @14dp5dt: 2058 eusa_pray.gif
17dp5dt (5w1d) U/S - 6 mm gestational sac
6w2d U/S - one baby with a strong HB
18th Nov - IPS testing
23rd Nov - Risk of trisomy 13,18 and 21 under 1 in 10,000 in Panorama test
15th Dec - U/S at 15 weeks - Team PINK!

Gave birth on June 2018

 

Trying for no#2

IVF #7 Started stims on 8th of Jul, 300 gonal f + cetrotide + double trigger

ER on 20th July

17 egss retrieved, 15 mature, 12 fertilized

 


#11 sprbaby

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  • Dx:Tubal
  • My Clinic:LHSC

Posted 12 February 2014 - 02:27 PM

Thanks. I've read his book too. Very helpful, if anyone is looking for a good all-around IVF book.


http://dustyolewombs.blogspot.ca

Dx: Tubal

Me (38) DH (37)

 

IVF Cycle #1

Dec 2013 13 retrieved, 11 fertilized,

day 3: 7 great embryos

day 5: no blasts; transferred 1 morula

day 6: still no blasts, nothing to freeze

day 13: spotting

day 14: BFN

 

IVF Cycle #2 - March 2014

*added 3 months CoQ10 and omnitrope with stims*

Mar 2014: 14 eggs retrieved, 13 fertilized

day 5: two early blasts, both transferred!

day 6: one more blast frozen!

day 14: AF arrived, BFN confirmed on day 16.

 

FET cycle - Nov 2014

transferred one and only frozen blast - BFN


#12 Adventure

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  • Gender:Female
  • Dx:Unexplained

Posted 13 February 2014 - 01:28 PM

If you are 7 days off then your follicles will grow and mature. Hope those supplements help!



#13 9ay

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  • Dx:Endometriosis

Posted 01 September 2015 - 06:41 AM

Hi, I just wanted to update. Supplements did not help in my case. There was no change in quality and quantity of the retrieved eggs.


VF#1 Oct 2012: Long Lupron Protocol, 13 eggs retrieved, 10 mature, 8 fertilized, 2 transferred at day 3, th_abfn.gif
FET#1 Dec 2012 : 2 transferred at day 3, th_abfn.gif
Changed clinics
IVF#2 Oct 2013: Long Lupron Protocol, 11 eggs retrieved, 8 mature, 7 fertilized, 2 transferred at day 3, 5 cultured to day 5, none made it to blast , th_abfn.gif
IVF#3 Jan 2014: Long Lupron Protocol, 10 eggs retrieved, 7 mature, 5 fertilized, 3 transferred at day 3, yup same story...th_abfn.gif
IVF#4 Jun 2014: Long Lupron Protocol, 8 mature, 3 transferred at day 3, yet another th_abfn.gif
Time to change clinics
IVF#5 Jan 2015: Ultra Long Lupron Protocol (3 months of Lupron Depot therapy prior to IVF), 13 eggs retrieved, 8 mature, 5 fertilized, 2 2BB 5 day blasts with AH transferred
Beta @11dp5dt: 256.9 th_abfp.gif
Pregnant with twins. One stop growing @9 weeks.
TFMR at 21 weeks on 23 Jun 2015. Gave birth to a beautiful angel boy sad.png
IVF#6 Sep 2015 - Trying for my rainbow
Short protocol
Started stims on 31st Aug
ER on 14th Sep, 14 eggs retrieved, 13 mature, 9 fertilised, 6 divided
2 3BA 5 day blasts transferred on 19th Sep
9dp5dt th_abfp.gifyahoo.gif
Beta @11dp5dt: 738
Beta @14dp5dt: 2058 eusa_pray.gif
17dp5dt (5w1d) U/S - 6 mm gestational sac
6w2d U/S - one baby with a strong HB
18th Nov - IPS testing
23rd Nov - Risk of trisomy 13,18 and 21 under 1 in 10,000 in Panorama test
15th Dec - U/S at 15 weeks - Team PINK!

Gave birth on June 2018

 

Trying for no#2

IVF #7 Started stims on 8th of Jul, 300 gonal f + cetrotide + double trigger

ER on 20th July

17 egss retrieved, 15 mature, 12 fertilized

 






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