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Obesity & IVF discussed @ TO Conference


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#26 Duck

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 10:45 AM

I think I'm the odd man out here, I agree with them, they are talking about morbidly obese and there are risk factors that have to be taken into account. As a healthcare professional it's not up to dr's to tell pt's what they want to hear but the truth. It doesn't mean they can cruel and mean about it, but it means they need to be supportive and find ways to help their patients get to a weight that doesn't have such high risks. At the end of the day it's the dr who has to perform the procedure and if they feel they are putting a patient at risk then ethically it's up to them to decide if the benefits outweigh the risk to mother and a potential baby.

Some clinics put an age cap on treatments, I see this as no different, is it discrimination? maybe, is it discrimination for a clinic to deny a 60yr old treatment? maybe but they do it.

I knew my odds were decreased I continued smoking so I quit, I quit a habitt I LOVED, was it hard? You bet, it's one of the hardest addictions to quit but I knew that I had to do it to increase my odds of success and that I would be putting a baby at risk if I continued, so in January 2005 I gave up my beloved addiction during one of the most stressful times in my life, I gave it up 4 months before I cycled.

Had I been told I needed to lose weight because of the risk to myself and a potential baby, I would have done whatever I could to lose weight. I don't feel that a dr or nurse telling a patient they need to do xyz is discrimination.


I think they are suggesting BMI over 30, which is obese, I think morbid obese is when the BMI is over 40? A BMI of over 30 maybe high for some women, but, I do know a woman who is a size 6 and a BMI of 28, so BMI is a bit dodgy.

My concern is more around reproductive freedom, if a woman has a BMI over 30, and are concerned about a decrease in egg quality if they wait a year to loose weight, then doctors should work with them, offer perhaps a freeze all cycle, they can cycle and then transfer after they have lost some weight? I guess I have concerns with out right barring an entire section of the population, it starts with BMI, but where does it stop?

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#27 Cassandra_Angela

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 12:05 PM

My doctor is very weight conscious and recommended that I lose some weight because it would increase my odds, I yo-yo'd for years and never had success but once I lost 30 pounds the IVF finally worked. Having said that even after the weight loss I was still considered overweight having a BMI of 31.3 so I dont think that health = thin.
I am totally ok over all health being an aspect of treatment but I dont think that treatment should be refused based totally on BMI

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#28 Rick

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 12:43 PM

What concerns me is the notion that an obese female is putting herself and a potential fetus in more danger than, for example, someone being treated with a genetic condition, like a chromosome translocation. We were given a 48% change of miscarriage or fetal anomaly if successfully pregnant. I would say our chances of something going wrong were exponentially more probable than a matter of simply being overweight. Or are they now denying people the opportunity to use IVF if there are genetic issues?
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#29 Erin_G

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 02:37 PM

What bugs me about this is that health is so much bigger than just weight and is way bigger than BMI. According to BMI, my husband is obese but he's a really big man- tall, broad and muscular even though he does have a bit of a beer belly- and is frankly in better shape then I am even though my BMI is perfect!

I can't imagine being faced with something like this when you are already dealing with the stress of infertility, especially in cases where age or POF is a looming factor. And what if your fertility challenges have nothing to do with your weight but were male factor, tubal, etc.?? If weight becomes a cut-off, where do you stop? No smokers allowed? Quit your high-stress job? You already have 3 children so stop being greedy? No one with any type of chronic condition gets treatments?

I'm all for doctors advising their patients to get healthy or lose some weight to improve their outcomes but weight is such a short-sighted measure to use as a cut off for something as fundamental as fertility. That's my 2 cents!
Erin & Cory
So fortunate to have twin boys from IVF #1
Thinking of the embabies we have on ice.

January 13- CD 1
March 2- ER, 10 mature eggs retrieved
March 3- 9 out of the 10 fertilized!
March 7- Transfered 2 perfect blasts and froze 6.
March 23- Beta Day- 5500!!
April 7- 1st ultrasound- TWINS!
May 12- NT scan- both babies looking good
July 11- 20 week scan- two perfect looking boys 15oz each; cervix 4.5cm
August 3- 24 week scan- both boys looking good, weighing in at 1lb8oz each
September 1- 28 week scan- I have two big, active boys- Baby A 2lbs10oz, Baby B 2lbs15oz
October 10- Nathan & Brayden are here! Arrived safe and sound at 33w5d



#30 Karolinasmommy

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 02:44 PM

Erin - definitely agree with your comments.
Although, they classify me as having PCOS there is no real issue for me to not get pregnant on my own. I ovulate and all that...my issue lies with my DH and his genetic factor causing the sperm to not get out. So, IVF is our ONLY option.
I agree that I should lose weight...and in the past it was always a number game on the scale. The way I am now is more than just a numbers game...and I'm actually more successful this way! I'm more concerned at how much more I can do with respect to my activity lately. I like the challenge, I like to push myself and I can actually do things I wasn't able to do three weeks ago. So, the sky is the limit for me...with or without this weight. I think that is what this is all missing. If this is a numbers game...a lot of us would fail.

I think people are missing the bigger picture with respect to this topic.

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May all your dreams come true in ways you least expect it❤️

#31 Rick

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 02:51 PM

I didn't realize this was already being discussed so I merged a similar topic into this one.

#32 Heather S

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 03:13 PM

I think I'm the odd man out here, I agree with them, they are talking about morbidly obese and there are risk factors that have to be taken into account. As a healthcare professional it's not up to dr's to tell pt's what they want to hear but the truth. It doesn't mean they can cruel and mean about it, but it means they need to be supportive and find ways to help their patients get to a weight that doesn't have such high risks. At the end of the day it's the dr who has to perform the procedure and if they feel they are putting a patient at risk then ethically it's up to them to decide if the benefits outweigh the risk to mother and a potential baby.

Some clinics put an age cap on treatments, I see this as no different, is it discrimination? maybe, is it discrimination for a clinic to deny a 60yr old treatment? maybe but they do it.

I knew my odds were decreased I continued smoking so I quit, I quit a habitt I LOVED, was it hard? You bet, it's one of the hardest addictions to quit but I knew that I had to do it to increase my odds of success and that I would be putting a baby at risk if I continued, so in January 2005 I gave up my beloved addiction during one of the most stressful times in my life, I gave it up 4 months before I cycled.

Had I been told I needed to lose weight because of the risk to myself and a potential baby, I would have done whatever I could to lose weight. I don't feel that a dr or nurse telling a patient they need to do xyz is discrimination.


I am at a 35 BMI exactly and I am NOT morbidly obese in mine or my doctor's opinion. I am quite healthy actually. I am probably more fit than other women I know that are thinner (I run, swim, yoga, etc all the time). So they need to be really clear about who they consider morbidly obese.

me 40; DH 41 PCOS + Male Factor

ICSI #1: Apr/May09ER
Apr 30/09; 24 retrieved, 21 mature, 17 fertilized
ET May 5/09; transferred two 2BB embryos + froze two (a 4BB and a 4BA) on day 6
beta May 14/09 = BFP! (99, 147, 299)
u/s #1 7.7mm & 123hbpm u/s #2 9weeks - everything looks good
7/13/09 missed miscarriage identified at 12 week appt . hb stopped @ 9w4d.

FET #1 Oct 29/09
transferred 2 (4bb and 4ba)
Beta Nov 7/09 = BFP hcg:55. Beta #2 = 84. Beta #3 = 151; Beta #4 = 1424
u/s #1 160bpm and 8.7mm;
EDD July 17, 2010
u/s #2 178bpm and 2.46cm
Baby girl Hailey Denae born July 21st 2010

ICSI #2: Nov/Dec12 Here we go again! Antagonist protocol this time around.
300 bravelle 150 menopure Baseline Nov 22nd.
Start stims Nov 23rd. Est Retrieval Dec 4-6 and Est Transfer Dec 9-11
after 3 days of stims e2=1604, s/b 500-700. yikes! E2 levelled off.
ER Dec 3/12; 14 Retrieved, 9 Fertilized
ET Dec 8/12; 4AA & 2BB transferred, froze 4BB and 3BB on day 6
Beta Dec 17/12 9dp5dt = 64. Beta #2 11dp5dt = 68. Beta #3 13dp5dt = 101. Beta #4 15dp5dt = 178. Beta #5 19dp5dt=493. 
Heartbeat at 6w u/s.  No heartbeat at 7w u/s.  Miscarriage, again

FET March 27/13 One blast didn't make it, the other hadn't fluffed up before transfer. BFN

We're done with ART and will be a happy family of 3.


#33 Heather S

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 03:19 PM

What concerns me is the notion that an obese female is putting herself and a potential fetus in more danger than, for example, someone being treated with a genetic condition, like a chromosome translocation. We were given a 48% change of miscarriage or fetal anomaly if successfully pregnant. I would say our chances of something going wrong were exponentially more probable than a matter of simply being overweight. Or are they now denying people the opportunity to use IVF if there are genetic issues?


Really good point Rick! Shouldn't they then ban IVF to couples with MF issues too? DH's morphology issues have potential for causing genetic problems much more than the BMI issue does for us. Where does it stop? With regards to genetic issues...My cousin's first child was autistic and she went on to have 2 more autistic kids (she is amazing with them! and they are such wonderful children). Based on their "common sense approach to this" does it mean she should be banned from having another baby because they have a likelihood of having a disease?

me 40; DH 41 PCOS + Male Factor

ICSI #1: Apr/May09ER
Apr 30/09; 24 retrieved, 21 mature, 17 fertilized
ET May 5/09; transferred two 2BB embryos + froze two (a 4BB and a 4BA) on day 6
beta May 14/09 = BFP! (99, 147, 299)
u/s #1 7.7mm & 123hbpm u/s #2 9weeks - everything looks good
7/13/09 missed miscarriage identified at 12 week appt . hb stopped @ 9w4d.

FET #1 Oct 29/09
transferred 2 (4bb and 4ba)
Beta Nov 7/09 = BFP hcg:55. Beta #2 = 84. Beta #3 = 151; Beta #4 = 1424
u/s #1 160bpm and 8.7mm;
EDD July 17, 2010
u/s #2 178bpm and 2.46cm
Baby girl Hailey Denae born July 21st 2010

ICSI #2: Nov/Dec12 Here we go again! Antagonist protocol this time around.
300 bravelle 150 menopure Baseline Nov 22nd.
Start stims Nov 23rd. Est Retrieval Dec 4-6 and Est Transfer Dec 9-11
after 3 days of stims e2=1604, s/b 500-700. yikes! E2 levelled off.
ER Dec 3/12; 14 Retrieved, 9 Fertilized
ET Dec 8/12; 4AA & 2BB transferred, froze 4BB and 3BB on day 6
Beta Dec 17/12 9dp5dt = 64. Beta #2 11dp5dt = 68. Beta #3 13dp5dt = 101. Beta #4 15dp5dt = 178. Beta #5 19dp5dt=493. 
Heartbeat at 6w u/s.  No heartbeat at 7w u/s.  Miscarriage, again

FET March 27/13 One blast didn't make it, the other hadn't fluffed up before transfer. BFN

We're done with ART and will be a happy family of 3.


#34 Ope

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 03:24 PM

This weight discrimination just happened to me a few months ago. I contacted a clinic in Eastern Europe to do IVF there. My parents live there, and the clinic is cheap and has good success rate. It seemed like a good solution for us. I have contacted them and they were very nice they have a lot of overseas patient , so things were looking good until I filled up their patient registration questionere. After that and I got back a very short 1 line answer "We do not deal with women at this weight".

I was so embarrassed and angry. They have never even seen me, they haven't read any of the health information after they saw my weight. My BMI is 31, which is obese since it is above 30. I wear a size 12 pants and size 14 tops( big boobs) for my 5'8" . I bike over 200km+ every month, i jog, I do weight training. I have normal blood pressure, my cholesterol is super low, my blood sugar is perfect , i have no health issues except infertility and never had any health issues except wearing glasses.

I got pregnant on our very first IVF. I had the most uneventful pregnancy. I had no pregnancy diabetes, i had no high blood pressure and had absolutely no problem. I carried my son to full term and I gave birth at the 40th week. I had vaginal birth and the only complication was that my son was sunny side up and had to be turned with the help of forceps. I was out of the hospital within 24 hr after birth with a healthy infant. I had no postpartum depression and I breastfeed my child until he was 2 yrs old.

I have a proven record of healthy pregnancy and healthy child and I have no health issues

So why I was turned down from a treatment? Because of my BMI is bigger then 30! As impatient pointed out BMI doesn't take consideration the body composition. Women who big boned and have some muscle can be turned down , while small boned no muscle women with tons of fat can go forward?
I think it is totally crap.

I really hope Canadian clinic won't follow such an arbitrary cut off procedures. I know a certain degree of obesity leads to health problems and risk, but that is NOT based on BMI.

The problem with weight loss that is takes time a LOT of time. It is not like stop drinking alcohol or coffee or quit smoking, which can be done from one month to the next. Fixing weight problem may take a year or more. If somebody over 35 yr old that extra time might lead decide to have a child at the end or not.
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right now me : 37 Dh:40

TTC #1: natural TTC 1.5 yrs
Dh: 35, Severe Male factor infertility, morphology is 1-2%
Me: 32 , tubes open, no endo, regular ovulation, all hormones are good, 3rd day FSH 5.3 , antral follicle count is 12, only problem is my weight BMI: 30

IVF/ ICSI #1: 2008 February -McGill, Montreal
Long protocol: BCP for 1 month, burselin from CD21, 300 Gonal F and 150 Luveris for 10 days
ER: 11 egg , 6 mature , 5 fertilized, 3rd day transfer:a 7 cell & an 8 cell embyos, no frosties.
1st beta : 13dp3dt: 77, BFP
2008,November 19th: Adam has arrived 7 lb 4 oz, 21"

TTC #2: natural TTC 1.5 yr
Dh :39 morphology went up to 4%, we meet the IUI cutoff! count are fluctuating from 30 to 105 million, motility is great. Caryotyping is normal
Me: 36 FSH is slightly elevated and keep rising 8.5, 8.8, 8.9, 9.8 , AFC is still 12, everything else looks good.

IUI #1: Edmonton, 2011 January ,Clomid 50mg (x5), 106 mil ,68% motile, grade 4 :BFN
IUI #2: Edmonton, 2011 February, Clomid 50mg (x5), 30 mil, 57% motile, grade 3: BFN
IUI #3: Edmonton, 2011 March, Clomid 50mg (x5), 88 mil , 49% motile, grade 4: BFN
IVF#2: 2011 May, Edmonton: long protocol , nasal suprefact : CANCELLED due to high progresteron & cyst
IVF#3: 2011 August, Edmonton: short protocol/natural start: CANCELLED due to high progesterone
IVF#4: 2001 September, Edmonton: short protocol with BCP: CANCELLED due to high progresteron & cyst
Change clinic

IVF #5: 2012 March-April Hungary: stimulation starts march 28, 300 Menopur
mixed protocol: BCP for months, CD3: Menopur 300& lupron for 8 days
ER : April 8th , 4 eggs retrieved, all were mature and fertilized with ICSI and AH
ET : April 11th, 1 A quality 8 cell, and 1 A quality 4 cell embryo transferred, no frosties.
BFP on the HPT at 7dp3dt: happy 37th birthday to me :D
Beta: , 12dp3dt: 150, 2nd Beta, 15dp3dt: 550
Anna has arrived on 21st December after being induced at 39 week. She is 6 lb 9 oz, 20" , and has blue eyes, and long dark brown hair and just perfect !

#35 Rick

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 03:26 PM

What concerns me is the notion that an obese female is putting herself and a potential fetus in more danger than, for example, someone being treated with a genetic condition, like a chromosome translocation. We were given a 48% change of miscarriage or fetal anomaly if successfully pregnant. I would say our chances of something going wrong were exponentially more probable than a matter of simply being overweight. Or are they now denying people the opportunity to use IVF if there are genetic issues?


Really good point Rick! Shouldn't they then ban IVF to couples with MF issues too? DH's morphology issues have potential for causing genetic problems much more than the BMI issue does for us. Where does it stop? With regards to genetic issues...My cousin's first child was autistic and she went on to have 2 more autistic kids (she is amazing with them! and they are such wonderful children). Based on their "common sense approach to this" does it mean she should be banned from having another baby because they have a likelihood of having a disease?


Yes, where does it stop? How about unexplained infertility, which is 25% of their patients? They don't even know what the cause is and they treat people. Using their logic it would seem dangerous and negligent to offer assistance until an actual diagnosis can be established. How would you know the risks otherwise?
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#36 gibasgirl

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 04:58 PM

This weight discrimination just happened to me a few months ago. I contacted a clinic in Eastern Europe to do IVF there. My parents live there, and the clinic is cheap and has good success rate. It seemed like a good solution for us. I have contacted them and they were very nice they have a lot of overseas patient , so things were looking good until I filled up their patient registration questionere. After that and I got back a very short 1 line answer "We do not deal with women at this weight".

I was so embarrassed and angry. They have never even seen me, they haven't read any of the health information after they saw my weight. My BMI is 31, which is obese since it is above 30. I wear a size 12 pants and size 14 tops( big boobs) for my 5'8" . I bike over 200km+ every month, i jog, I do weight training. I have normal blood pressure, my cholesterol is super low, my blood sugar is perfect , i have no health issues except infertility and never had any health issues except wearing glasses.

I got pregnant on our very first IVF. I had the most uneventful pregnancy. I had no pregnancy diabetes, i had no high blood pressure and had absolutely no problem. I carried my son to full term and I gave birth at the 40th week. I had vaginal birth and the only complication was that my son was sunny side up and had to be turned with the help of forceps. I was out of the hospital within 24 hr after birth with a healthy infant. I had no postpartum depression and I breastfeed my child until he was 2 yrs old.

I have a proven record of healthy pregnancy and healthy child and I have no health issues

So why I was turned down from a treatment? Because of my BMI is bigger then 30! As impatient pointed out BMI doesn't take consideration the body composition. Women who big boned and have some muscle can be turned down , while small boned no muscle women with tons of fat can go forward?
I think it is totally crap.

I really hope Canadian clinic won't follow such an arbitrary cut off procedures. I know a certain degree of obesity leads to health problems and risk, but that is NOT based on BMI.

The problem with weight loss that is takes time a LOT of time. It is not like stop drinking alcohol or coffee or quit smoking, which can be done from one month to the next. Fixing weight problem may take a year or more. If somebody over 35 yr old that extra time might lead decide to have a child at the end or not.


I think the danger is, the medical community wants to standardise patients and there's simply too much variety and complexity in our lives. So in a world where everyone fits into a little box, they'll look at your numbers and not factor-in the other components of your life.

And where do we draw the line? Is the medical community going to take a stand against women with a BMI over 30 from TTC naturally? Who's next?

#37 conky

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 05:39 PM

I won't say much about this except that I think arbitrarily drawing a line of who will or will not be treated based on BMI is ridiculous. Doctors already have the ability to say no to patients if they think the risks outweigh the potential rewards, don't they? Why do they need to standardize this? And BMI is fine for general population measures and such, but not for individuals. I had a low BMI...18.5...the absolutel borderline for being underweight, but nobody who met me would think I was actually underweight. I'm tall and have narrow bone structure (aside from my hips), a really small chest, etc. So my weight is low for my height, but I'm not uber skinny or anything. So I know from the other end of the spectrum that BMI is not a good indicator of how over or underweight a person is.

So the short story for me is that while obesity is a health issue that needs to be taken seriously, I think this is crap.

#38 impatient

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 07:51 AM

Another concern with this whole thing is that these REs who are discriminating based on BMI are not encouraging a healthy lifestyle. As Ope pointed out, it takes a long time to lose weight. One to two pounds per week is considered healthy/sustainable.

I don't know about you guys, but when I was waiting for all the diagnostics before my first IVF, I was absolutely desperate for things to move faster. Nothing was more important to me. If someone had told me to lose a few pounds, I would have stopped eating.

(It's easy to get skinny quickly - just not in a healthy way.)
Me: 41, DH: 44
TTC: since Jan, 2008 (age 34)

DH: Low morphology, low count. Me: Stage 2-3 endometriosis, non-functional fallopian tubes, small fibroids, low AFC, low poor responder ... anything else?

Jun 2008-Sep 2011 in a nutshell: One HSG, one very traumatic office hysteroscopy, one operative laparoscopy, three fresh IVF/ICSI cycles, one chemical, one early miscarriage, two tubal recanalizations, five IUIs (3 with Clomid).

May 2010 - Aug 2011 Attempted adoption application process through the BC MCFD. Aug 2011 Signed up with a private agency. On both waiting lists as of Apr 2012. Proposal through MCFD Jul 2012. Aug 2012 - Finally ... she's home and we're a family! : )

Adoption application #2 started Aug 2013. DD2 placed May 2014, finalized Feb 2015!


"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
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#39 jaan

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 09:27 AM

I would never condone denying a women IVF because of bmi, it has to be an overall assesment performed by the RE, I know women who are heavy that are healthier than slim women, I also know women who have been told to gain weight, so it goes both ways. However I don't agree that just because you are paying for a procedure that means the dr has to perform it, he/she has the right and is ethically bound to not put a pt at risk and if they feel the procedure is too risky then they do have the right to say no. I don't think an RE is going to deny a women ART because she is 30lbs overweight it depends on the pt, but if a pt is severely overweight has medical issues such as type 2 diabetes high blood pressure and other issues then it does make sence for the RE to say no.

My sil was on high bld pressure medication she also has PCOS, she was also overweight, she has lost over 120 lbs and guess what, her blood pressure is normal and she is off the meds and her pcos is much better. As much as people don't like to hear the truth, it's still doesen't change the fact that severe weight gain will put pressures on the body and by losing weight alot of issues can be resolved.

It wasn't easy for her to lose that weight but she did it....if you want something bad enough you will do it. I knew I needed to quit smoking, it was really difficult but I knew I wanted the best odds for my ivf cycle, had my dr told me I needed to lose x amount of wt I would have done it.

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#40 Karolinasmommy

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 09:51 AM

Jaan - I completely agree with you. If you do suffer from health issues and you are overweight, losing some weight can help those health issues exponentially. And, it does have to be the person who is overweight that makes that decision. I think that a lot of times it is too big of a mountain to climb and people get discouraged. I have been there and done that...and still battling it out. But, for me, I know I am giving my 100%..and if that only allows me to drop in BMI a few points, but my overall health has improved I think those are the things that the doctors should take in consideration, rather than the BMI number itself.

I am already sick of this topic outside of the IF world...I've had so many people who know I've went through IVF approach me on my thoughts. I honestly want to just tell them "are you coming to me because I am overweight and have to use IVF to get pregnant? Or do you actually care of my thoughts on this?". I mean, these are people who do not know anything about IVF in general...they have no clue what goes into a cycle, be it physically or emotionally. All they know is it costs A LOT of money and I'm the unlucky one to have to go through it. I just feel like it is isolating the heavier girls even more than IF usually does...so overall, hasn't been a great week thanks the media broadcasting this info to everyone and their dog. Sorry for being so harsh..but I woke up today to find 3 people sending me this article...who funny enough are all on maternity leave with their little babies..and all conceived naturally..just irritates me! I know people in general mean well, it's just that IF patients already have so many mountains to climb in this journey..it just makes it that much harder by things like this coming about.

I get the point of the doctors and the risks they put on their patients. I do not feel that it is a "I have the money so let's start regardless of my size" sort of situation. My personal take on this...having gone through IVF and getting pregnant...I do not want to go back to being the weight I was for my next round of IVF because I needed more meds during stimulation, which sorta freaked me out a little, but it could be common for me at any weight really. The one thing I definitely did not enjoy...and this is the reason why I am pushing myself so hard now, is when it came to ultrasounds they did have a lot of issues getting good images. And, that really bothered me. I've said this before, but I will say it again. While pregnant, my body belongs to my baby. Everything that enters my mouth or I breath in or I apply to my skin goes to my baby. And, I do not want anything to harm it...I am extra careful over everything that I do when I am pregnant. So, to have to sit through ultrasounds that are double the length they should be...with techs who probe and push way too hard than they should because they need the image...that really makes me upset...and it's something that I probably should have got a control over years ago. So, I mean there is a very fine line between those who are overweight and don't care and those who are trying to make a difference. I think it really is up to patient and doctor to have a real get down to business conversation...and if patients take it, than fine..if not the patient will probably find another doctor willing to do the procedure. And that's my next issue...although a lot of clinics may abide by the BMI restrictions...there are some clinics out there who are all about the $$$. So, it will be interesting to see how this plays, if it does at all.

Overall, I am finding this a great conversation in our IF world, because in general obesity is becoming such a huge issue for so many people...and I think it's really important for our age to get a hold of this issue...or we will not see a very bright future. There is a study I read the other week that our generation and our kids generation if this obesity crisis doesn't get under control...it will be the first time in history that parents outlive their kids. That is just so sad...so I think there is a deeper message than just qualifying for IVF. I think this is a message that goes to everyone regardless of shape and size. Some of the foods out there are not healthy...and our hectic lifestyles leaves little wiggle room for fitness. So, regardless of weight, I think there should be a different message being sent out to everyone in general.
IVF #1
Loss @ 11 weeks (vanishing twin)👼
Loss @ 24 weeks due to pprom (Karolina)👼
Birth of Son #1 in 2014 🌈
Birth of Son #2 in 2016 🌈

May all your dreams come true in ways you least expect it❤️

#41 Rufus

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 11:23 AM

I don't think there should be an arbitrary cut-off, especially BMI which doesn't give the whole picture. As many have posted here, you can be very fit and still have a high BMI (conversely, you can have a low BMI and be very unfit). Someone who is morbidly obese should be made aware of the increased risks for her, but ultimately, the decision for treatment should lie with her and her partner.
Me: 44 DH: 48
After 3 fresh cycles and 1 FET:
Beautiful Baby Girl arrived January 10, 2010

Final FET: late February 2012
Started estrace Feb 8
Lining check: Feb 21...need a few more days
Feb 23...need 5 more days!
Feb 28 - good to go!!

Embryo transfer: March 4 "a perfect transfer" of 2 blasts (1 survived thaw with 100% of cells intact, 1 with 50% of cells intact)

Beta: March 17 - negative

#42 Ope

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 11:31 AM

jaan: I agree with you if a patient have many health issues related her obesity that has to be addressed. Again if somebody have type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure etc that has to be really careful watched regardless of her weight.
However this is already a reality and always have been in Canada. Dr do not treat just everybody they never had. If the patient is severely overweight and cause problem they sit down and talk about it, and on case-by -case basis they do turn down patient if the risk is great. There have been many topic around here where we discussed what is different clinic opinion on different weights, and yes there are clinics and Dr who turn down patients more often then others.

Right now they have been discussing to put a standard cut off point based on the medical definition of obesity , which is BMI over 30 regardless of health status of the women. Which is arbitrary and totally discriminatory and has nothing to do with health risk.

Also as i pointed out quit smoking is not the same as weight loss. I have been in both boat, and quitting smoking is a piece of cake compare to losing weight IMHO. ( I quit cold turkey after 8 years of smoking with 2 pack a day never looked back, and it was 10 years ago)

However the main different is TIME of the health improvement. . You can quit smoking and you are done, a couple of weeks you do not crave nicotine anymore your health improved almost immediately. While losing significant amount weight take a lot of time if you want to do it a healthy way. Since fertility does down with age, you are racing against the clock. So you either do on a crash diet putting your health to risk. Or you do it the healthy way 1-2 lb per week, and that in takes forever. You have to weight the pros of lower weight against the advancing maternal age. Both can lower the chance of conception, increase the health risk for the mother and the baby and Dr has to decide this on case by case basis.


This just brings an other stigma for couples who are battling infertility. Until now the general media showed a picture that people who are infertily cause that by themselves because they `lifestyle choices` of waiting too long. Now we just adding another blame. Now the media will suggest that people are infertile because they are fat , do not take care of themselves, waited too long and selfish anyway. That is just great :(
  • Duck and SandraDee like this
right now me : 37 Dh:40

TTC #1: natural TTC 1.5 yrs
Dh: 35, Severe Male factor infertility, morphology is 1-2%
Me: 32 , tubes open, no endo, regular ovulation, all hormones are good, 3rd day FSH 5.3 , antral follicle count is 12, only problem is my weight BMI: 30

IVF/ ICSI #1: 2008 February -McGill, Montreal
Long protocol: BCP for 1 month, burselin from CD21, 300 Gonal F and 150 Luveris for 10 days
ER: 11 egg , 6 mature , 5 fertilized, 3rd day transfer:a 7 cell & an 8 cell embyos, no frosties.
1st beta : 13dp3dt: 77, BFP
2008,November 19th: Adam has arrived 7 lb 4 oz, 21"

TTC #2: natural TTC 1.5 yr
Dh :39 morphology went up to 4%, we meet the IUI cutoff! count are fluctuating from 30 to 105 million, motility is great. Caryotyping is normal
Me: 36 FSH is slightly elevated and keep rising 8.5, 8.8, 8.9, 9.8 , AFC is still 12, everything else looks good.

IUI #1: Edmonton, 2011 January ,Clomid 50mg (x5), 106 mil ,68% motile, grade 4 :BFN
IUI #2: Edmonton, 2011 February, Clomid 50mg (x5), 30 mil, 57% motile, grade 3: BFN
IUI #3: Edmonton, 2011 March, Clomid 50mg (x5), 88 mil , 49% motile, grade 4: BFN
IVF#2: 2011 May, Edmonton: long protocol , nasal suprefact : CANCELLED due to high progresteron & cyst
IVF#3: 2011 August, Edmonton: short protocol/natural start: CANCELLED due to high progesterone
IVF#4: 2001 September, Edmonton: short protocol with BCP: CANCELLED due to high progresteron & cyst
Change clinic

IVF #5: 2012 March-April Hungary: stimulation starts march 28, 300 Menopur
mixed protocol: BCP for months, CD3: Menopur 300& lupron for 8 days
ER : April 8th , 4 eggs retrieved, all were mature and fertilized with ICSI and AH
ET : April 11th, 1 A quality 8 cell, and 1 A quality 4 cell embryo transferred, no frosties.
BFP on the HPT at 7dp3dt: happy 37th birthday to me :D
Beta: , 12dp3dt: 150, 2nd Beta, 15dp3dt: 550
Anna has arrived on 21st December after being induced at 39 week. She is 6 lb 9 oz, 20" , and has blue eyes, and long dark brown hair and just perfect !

#43 impatient

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 11:49 AM

Very true, Ope. We all know that many people who are uninformed about infertility think that it's somehow our fault. We waited until we were too old, we got a sexually transmitted disease, we're not having sex enough or the right way, we are too high-strung and anxious, we're not maternal enough, we over-exercise ... and now we're fat.
Me: 41, DH: 44
TTC: since Jan, 2008 (age 34)

DH: Low morphology, low count. Me: Stage 2-3 endometriosis, non-functional fallopian tubes, small fibroids, low AFC, low poor responder ... anything else?

Jun 2008-Sep 2011 in a nutshell: One HSG, one very traumatic office hysteroscopy, one operative laparoscopy, three fresh IVF/ICSI cycles, one chemical, one early miscarriage, two tubal recanalizations, five IUIs (3 with Clomid).

May 2010 - Aug 2011 Attempted adoption application process through the BC MCFD. Aug 2011 Signed up with a private agency. On both waiting lists as of Apr 2012. Proposal through MCFD Jul 2012. Aug 2012 - Finally ... she's home and we're a family! : )

Adoption application #2 started Aug 2013. DD2 placed May 2014, finalized Feb 2015!


"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
Thomas Edison

#44 impatient

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 11:54 AM

And did I mention that BMI is an unscientific way of measuring body composition? Posted Image

There are many other more accurate ways of assessing obesity.
Me: 41, DH: 44
TTC: since Jan, 2008 (age 34)

DH: Low morphology, low count. Me: Stage 2-3 endometriosis, non-functional fallopian tubes, small fibroids, low AFC, low poor responder ... anything else?

Jun 2008-Sep 2011 in a nutshell: One HSG, one very traumatic office hysteroscopy, one operative laparoscopy, three fresh IVF/ICSI cycles, one chemical, one early miscarriage, two tubal recanalizations, five IUIs (3 with Clomid).

May 2010 - Aug 2011 Attempted adoption application process through the BC MCFD. Aug 2011 Signed up with a private agency. On both waiting lists as of Apr 2012. Proposal through MCFD Jul 2012. Aug 2012 - Finally ... she's home and we're a family! : )

Adoption application #2 started Aug 2013. DD2 placed May 2014, finalized Feb 2015!


"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
Thomas Edison

#45 Cassandra_Angela

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 12:20 PM

Here is the link to the article I was interviewed for regarding this topic http://www.thestar.c...article/1057248
  • gibasgirl likes this

Please see "about me" section for details

Pictures tell a thousand words: https://www.instagra...dra_angela1981/


#46 gibasgirl

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 07:11 PM

Well said and kudos for putting yourself out there.

Also, great photo. :)

#47 Suz1980

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 08:54 AM

When are these meetings over, and when will we hear if they really will not treat "obese" patients?

Me - 36 DH - 37

2008-2010 numerous rounds of failed clomid and Letrozole cycles

2011 - 3 failed IUI's with injects

Nov/Dec 2011 - IVF #1 -BFN

April/May 2012 - IVF w ICSI #2 - BFP (2 frozen embabies as well)
Feb 7/13 - Our miracle baby Stella Faith is born 6lbs 7oz

FET #1 BFN April 2014 FET #2 end of May 2014 - cancelled FET #2 again - June 2014 - BFP low beta early m/c sad.png

IVF #3 Oct 2014 BFN 2 frosties

FET #3 - Feb 2015 - BFN FET #4 May 12 2015 - BFN IVF #4 Jan 2016 7 frozen embryos, lining too thin to transfer will transfer in spring FET #5 June 14, 2016 BFN FET #6 Septemer 2016 - BFN 3 frosties remaining. FET #7 transfer 2 embryos Oct 8 2017 BFN Final FET#8 Nov 10 2017 Transfer last embryo BFN. Our journey to a sibling for a our miracle girl is over.


#48 Coastal

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 09:17 PM

I realize that I am a little late to the discussion. In general, I do disagree with using an arbitrary BMI # to restrict treatments. I will say, though, that the one upside to standardization is that it helps form people's expectations. It took me a year to get into a clinic to see an RE. If I were obese, that is one year I would have had to lower my BMI in expectation of potential IVF. So, while I take issue with the discrimination based purely on BMI, I do see how this may actually save time, rather than delay treatment, for women requiring IVF who have reason to believe their weight may be a problem.

Me - 32

DH - 31

I have endo and multiple autoimmune issues. 

TTC since April 2010

IUI with letrazole in August of 2012 - BFN

IUI with letrazole and stims in October of 2012 - BFN

IVF 2013

started BCP on Jan 13

started superfact on Jan 21

stim day 1 on Feb 2 with 150 IU of Puregon and 75 IU of Repronex - got big welts from Repronex!

after 3 days, Repronex was switched for Luveris and Puregon increased to 225 IU accordingly

Day 5 u/s showed slow response with 8 follies total and the largest at only 6mm

Day 8 u/s showed lots more follies with varied size. E2 climbing rapidly, told to quit superfact

Day 11 u/s - largest follies at 17mm - E2 levels too high. Off all stims.

ER on Feb 16 - 12 eggs collected, 9 fertilized (6 by ICSI and 3 by IVF). Dose of intralipids.

Begin heparin, baby aspirin, estrace, and prometrium

3 day Transfer on Feb 19 of all three remaining embryos - each of average quality (2 from the IVF and 1 from ICSI)

 

 


#49 Ope

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 11:43 PM

I realize that I am a little late to the discussion. In general, I do disagree with using an arbitrary BMI # to restrict treatments. I will say, though, that the one upside to standardization is that it helps form people's expectations. It took me a year to get into a clinic to see an RE. If I were obese, that is one year I would have had to lower my BMI in expectation of potential IVF. So, while I take issue with the discrimination based purely on BMI, I do see how this may actually save time, rather than delay treatment, for women requiring IVF who have reason to believe their weight may be a problem.

Sorry, but things do not work that way. How much an average person knows about IVF protocol and their standard whatever cutoff BEFORE even meeting an RE? Most likely not much.

I certainly didn't know anything. I haven't heard of long protocol, short protocol, estrogen priming protocol, AFC, AMH, luteral phase defect, low ovarian reserve etc back then when I waited to see an RE. I learnt all those thing AFTER we have realized that we have to have an IVF. Just because they will put an unscientific standard cutoff that won't help to people to get prepared to it. They simply won't know about it, as they don't know any IVF related other things either.

Most people do not even know what exactly involved in an IVF before they actually face the real possibility to need one. By that time they tried 1-2 or more years on their own, waited 6-12 months to see an RE, then spent a 6-12 months to go through different testing. Then the RE make them do 3-6-9 IUIs then they come to the point to declare they need an IVF. Many women actually gain a good chunk of their overweight during this extremely stressful process, not to mention the crazy hormones we pump into our body.

Although people do know that they have to eat healthy and exercise regularly, but unfortunately that is not enough to get a BMI<30 for many people.
right now me : 37 Dh:40

TTC #1: natural TTC 1.5 yrs
Dh: 35, Severe Male factor infertility, morphology is 1-2%
Me: 32 , tubes open, no endo, regular ovulation, all hormones are good, 3rd day FSH 5.3 , antral follicle count is 12, only problem is my weight BMI: 30

IVF/ ICSI #1: 2008 February -McGill, Montreal
Long protocol: BCP for 1 month, burselin from CD21, 300 Gonal F and 150 Luveris for 10 days
ER: 11 egg , 6 mature , 5 fertilized, 3rd day transfer:a 7 cell & an 8 cell embyos, no frosties.
1st beta : 13dp3dt: 77, BFP
2008,November 19th: Adam has arrived 7 lb 4 oz, 21"

TTC #2: natural TTC 1.5 yr
Dh :39 morphology went up to 4%, we meet the IUI cutoff! count are fluctuating from 30 to 105 million, motility is great. Caryotyping is normal
Me: 36 FSH is slightly elevated and keep rising 8.5, 8.8, 8.9, 9.8 , AFC is still 12, everything else looks good.

IUI #1: Edmonton, 2011 January ,Clomid 50mg (x5), 106 mil ,68% motile, grade 4 :BFN
IUI #2: Edmonton, 2011 February, Clomid 50mg (x5), 30 mil, 57% motile, grade 3: BFN
IUI #3: Edmonton, 2011 March, Clomid 50mg (x5), 88 mil , 49% motile, grade 4: BFN
IVF#2: 2011 May, Edmonton: long protocol , nasal suprefact : CANCELLED due to high progresteron & cyst
IVF#3: 2011 August, Edmonton: short protocol/natural start: CANCELLED due to high progesterone
IVF#4: 2001 September, Edmonton: short protocol with BCP: CANCELLED due to high progresteron & cyst
Change clinic

IVF #5: 2012 March-April Hungary: stimulation starts march 28, 300 Menopur
mixed protocol: BCP for months, CD3: Menopur 300& lupron for 8 days
ER : April 8th , 4 eggs retrieved, all were mature and fertilized with ICSI and AH
ET : April 11th, 1 A quality 8 cell, and 1 A quality 4 cell embryo transferred, no frosties.
BFP on the HPT at 7dp3dt: happy 37th birthday to me :D
Beta: , 12dp3dt: 150, 2nd Beta, 15dp3dt: 550
Anna has arrived on 21st December after being induced at 39 week. She is 6 lb 9 oz, 20" , and has blue eyes, and long dark brown hair and just perfect !

#50 judes

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 07:01 AM

Late to the party but thought I would add my two cents. I have a BMI of 30 and am considered obese by the clinical definition. Not because I sit around all day eating bonbons and watching soap operas, but because I have PCOS with insulin resistance which makes losing a weight a real issue. I go to gym and eat relatively well. In fact if you saw me from the back I am actually quite small. All my weight seems to be around the belly area, a complication from the insulin resistance.

Regarding a blanket denial of treatment to people who have high BMIs, I don't think that is fair. While a BMI is a guideline it is not the be all end all of deciding who is obese and who is not. Say you do weightlifting and build up a lot of lean muscle mass. Your weight most likely will be on the high end because muscle weights more than fat. Can you really call a man or a woman who is ripped but tips in at a BMI of say 30 or 31 obese? I think not.

I do agree that being extremely overweight can pose problems during treatment and have risks during pregnancy. However, rather than outright denying a patient treatment, perhaps weight loss in some cases could be part of the treatment? Explain why you need to be at the most x weight because of complications with meds, conscious sedation etc... Instead of turning them away, the clinics could have a weight loss program with a nutritionist and do regular followups with a reasonable target weight. Once the patient reaches that target weight they can begin treatment? Some may say that that is still discriminatory, I personally think at least you are helping these patients get into better shape and enter a lower risk zone for tx and for a healthier pregnancy and not leaving them to fend for themselves by telling them "too bad, so sad, but you are fat".
  • Heather S likes this

Me: 34 Him: 35
Married since 2006 TTC ever since
Diagnosis: PCOS 

 

For complete history, see about me.

 

2012

 

IVF 1.3
12/26 - Mackenzie born 7:54 am, 6 lbs 3 oz

wFsTm5.png

 

2013 - Project sibling

 

IVF 2.1

4/17 - consult - Project sibling is a go.  same protocol as last time pending bloodwork and sonohysterogram. 

Projected beginning of cycle - August 2013.

 

5/8 - sonohysterogram: tubes clear, no residual placental tissue, ovaries still polycystic. Green light to cycle when ready.

 

8/9 - baseline scan. begin meds, 150 puregon, 50 menopur

8/13 - add orgalutran

8/18 - trigger half ovidrel, half hcg

8/20 - ER - 17 retrieved. 8/21 - 8 mature, 7 fertilised

8/23 - ET - One 8-cell grade 2 embryo transfered

8/26 - One embaby made it to the freezer!

9/1 - HPT - BFP!!!!

9/5 - Beta - 295!

9/9 - Beta - 1550!

9/18 - we have a heartbeat. Little Shrimp is 4.5mm and heart is beating at 109 bpm

10/25 - Turns out Little Shrimp is actually Little Shrimps! We had identical twins! Twin A 174 bpm, Twin B 183 bpm. Both measuring 11wks + 4 days

 

11/1 - NT scan. 1.5 and 1.6mm. Twins both measuring 12wks + 5 days, 2 days ahead.

 

Week 24 - put on modified bed rest due to softening of the cervix

Week 27 - hospitalised with pre-term contractions

Week 29 - put on strict bed rest

 

Seamus and Ronan born March 13 at 31 weeks and 2 days

 

Ronan came home April 7 and Seamus came home April 11.

 

SFCBm4.png
 

My blog - Geeky.Mama.Life

 

My YouTube channel - Geeky Mama Life

 

My day in the life vlog - Geeky.Mama.Vlogs