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Public funded IVF - Poll


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Poll: IVF Funding poll (246 member(s) have cast votes)

Does the cost of IVF impact your level of negative stress?

  1. No impact (10 votes [4.07%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.07%

  2. Increase (229 votes [93.09%])

    Percentage of vote: 93.09%

  3. Not sure (7 votes [2.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.85%

Does paying for IVF impact your treatment plans?

  1. Yes (199 votes [80.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 80.89%

  2. No (39 votes [15.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.85%

  3. Not sure (8 votes [3.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.25%

Does the cost of IVF cause you to take higher treatment risks?

  1. Yes (158 votes [64.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 64.23%

  2. No (42 votes [17.07%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.07%

  3. Not sure (46 votes [18.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.70%

Should Provincial plans cover IVF funding?

  1. Yes (241 votes [97.97%])

    Percentage of vote: 97.97%

  2. No (5 votes [2.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.03%

Do you agree with funding under any of these conditions?

  1. Single embryo transfer for all to age 43 (36 votes [14.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.63%

  2. Single embryo transfer for all to an age above 43 (13 votes [5.28%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.28%

  3. Single to age 34, two age 35-43 (110 votes [44.72%])

    Percentage of vote: 44.72%

  4. Single to age 37, two age 38-43 (44 votes [17.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.89%

  5. Not sure (37 votes [15.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.04%

  6. No, don't fund at all (6 votes [2.44%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.44%

How many combined fresh/frozen cycles should be covered?

  1. 1 (3 votes [1.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.22%

  2. 2 (27 votes [10.98%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.98%

  3. 3 (141 votes [57.32%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.32%

  4. more than 3 (72 votes [29.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.27%

  5. none (3 votes [1.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.22%

If public funded service, under what priority?

  1. First come, first served (69 votes [28.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 28.05%

  2. Age-factored criteria (19 votes [7.72%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.72%

  3. Cause-factored criteria (22 votes [8.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.94%

  4. Multiple factors (136 votes [55.28%])

    Percentage of vote: 55.28%

If private and public funding options co-existed, would you....

  1. Wait longer for public funded service (141 votes [57.32%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.32%

  2. Pay privately rather than wait (105 votes [42.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.68%

Would public funding with long wait times..

  1. Reduce your stress (49 votes [19.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.92%

  2. Create you more stress (113 votes [45.93%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.93%

  3. Make no difference to your stress level (84 votes [34.15%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.15%

What is your primary reason for supporting a public option?

  1. Public economics (17 votes [6.91%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.91%

  2. Private economics (21 votes [8.54%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.54%

  3. Principles of a public healthcare system (203 votes [82.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 82.52%

  4. I don't support public funding (5 votes [2.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.03%

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#1 Rick

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 11:21 AM

I would like to create an article based on IVF funding and would appreciate knowing more about how you feel. If possible I would like to get more than 100 participants. Your contribution is appreciated. If you have any additional comments to add about this topic you are most welcome to post them. The comments may or may not be included in the future article.

#2 Born2B

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 12:07 PM

As I go down the path of IVF (after years of "no real reason we're not pregnant") I have also have to bare the stress of finances. My husband and I are work hard, have college educations and successful careers. We contribute to society (voluntering time, pay taxes) and I get no financial support from the Ontario government yet as I sit in a stuffy room over the Christmas holidays with my 21-year-old cousin, who has only a grade 9 education, and realize she is making 20+ thousand dollars a year (from welfare) to sit at home and have babies (2 so far and there is no stopping her)!! Yet here i am, spending a minimum 20 thousand dollars to try and have one!! It just doesn't make sense to me!!

Good luck on your article!
  • frustrated likes this
 BabyFruit Ticker

#3 Zeukko

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 05:34 PM

With IVF funding in the news, our local CTV station asked our Health Minister, who happens to be the MLA in my riding, if IVF would be funded or subsidized in the future. He said no because statistically speaking, it's not worth it. The odds are against us. Well, he lost my vote. Funding IVF would lead to fewer multiples, which would lead to fewer health care costs. Arghh....
  • Rick, HaileyVictoria and Neley like this
Me:42 and DH: 44
Married since 2004
Two amazing furbabies
TTC since Feb 2009
Sept-Dec 2010: Clomid + 5 IUIs = BFN :(
March 2011- IVF/ICSI#1: antagonist - BCP, Puregon, Orgalutron, Ovidrel, Crinone = BFN
22 follicles; 14 eggs; 11 fertilized; 2 transferred; 1 snowbaby
FET #1 May 2011- 1 grade 2 blastocyst = BFN
August 2011 - IVF #2:antagonist - BCP, Puregon, Orgalutron, Ovidrel, Crinone = BFN
21 follicles; 12 eggs; 10 fertilized; 3 transferred; 5 3d embryos frozen
FET #2 Oct 2011 = BFN FET#3 July 2012 = BFP @ Genesis Fertility Clinic Beta #1= 41 (gulp); Beta #2= 47 (ugh) = Chemical pregnancy
February 2013 - IVF #3 = BFP - Estrace, Menopur, Puregon, Orgalutron, Endometrin - Retrieved 14 egg, 11 mature, 9 fertilized. Transferred 2 blastocysts. 1 blastocyst snow babyBeta#1: 45 (uh oh)Beta#2: 555 (what?! Wow!)
Beta #3000+.
U/S shows not viable pregnancy. Stopped growing at 5w5days.


July 1st: Natural BFP on HPT - First Beta in the 400s; Second Beta dropped to 200s

April 2014: Single embryo transfer = BFN

Looking into adoption.

#4 FuzzyFur

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 07:11 PM

Zuekko - I saw that interview with Kevin Falcon....he's an idiot. If the reason for refusing treatment is that the odds are against us, then the Province should stop funding any and all treatment for those who are diagnosed as terminally ill.....after all, it's futile isn't it? Of course no one would ever support that, nor should they - it's a ridiculous notion. Try again Kevin, and at least do a little research and come up with something a bit more logical.

:) Jen
  • Rick likes this
Me:39 DH:40
TTC since Aug 2005
Male Factor - Embolization Surgery Jan 2007 - didn't work

IVF #1 - Start Synarel Aug 22/07
Sept 17/07 - ER!!!!!!!! 16 eggs retrieved - all ICSI

Sept 18/07 - 15 eggs injected - 7 embrios (grow embies grow!)
Sept 20/07 - ET - 10am - 2 beautliful 8-cell Grade 1 embrios!
Oct 05/07 - 15dp3dt BFP!! - Beta 1100
Oct 13/07 - 2nd Beta 15717!!!
Oct 19/07 - 1st U/S (6w4d) - 1 healthy baby - 120pbm!
Nov 26/07 - 1st Prenatal visit - Heartbeat 154bpm
Jan 30/08 - Ultrasound! (21w2d)
DUE DATE - June 10, 2008


June 23/08 - Griffin Patrick is here! 8lbs 5oz - 22 inches long

June 9/09-Here we go again! FET#1
July 17/09 - CYCLE CANCELLED - not responding to meds[/color]
Aug 15/09 - FET#1 - round 2!
Sept 1 - ET - welcome home frosties!
Sept 15 - 14dp5dt BFP!! - Beta 957 - wooohooo!
Oct 9 - 7w6d - u/s # 2 - no growth....this one is over


IVF/ICSI #2 (Flare protocol)
Nov 16/09 - CD3 b/w & u/s - start Superfact injections
Nov 18/09 - CD5 - start stims - E2 116 - 200iu Puregon
Nov 20/09 - CD7 - E2 2209 - 125iu Puregon
Nov 23/09 - CD10 - E2 14094 - no stims, Superfact only
Nov 24/09 - CD11 - E2 15963 - no stims, no Superfact
Nov 25/09 - CD12 - E2 11780 - hcg trigger 9pm
Nov 27/09 - ER - 11 eggs retrieved - all ICSI
Nov 28/09 - 6 eggs fertilized - grow embies, grow!
Nov 30/09 - ET - Grade2, 10-cell & Grade3, 8-cell
Dec 14/09 - 14dp3dt BFP!! Beta 550 (cautiously optimistic)
Dec 21/09 - 21dp3dt - Beta 8031 - YAY!
Jan 08/10 - 8 weeks - u/s - one healthy bean h/b 167bpm
DUE DATE - Aug 20, 2010

Sept 1/10 - Declan James is here! 7lbs 15 3/4oz - 20 inches long

Are there any more in our future??? 1 frostie remains

#5 Rick

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 12:42 AM

Zuekko - I saw that interview with Kevin Falcon....he's an idiot. If the reason for refusing treatment is that the odds are against us, then the Province should stop funding any and all treatment for those who are diagnosed as terminally ill.....after all, it's futile isn't it? Of course no one would ever support that, nor should they - it's a ridiculous notion. Try again Kevin, and at least do a little research and come up with something a bit more logical.

:) Jen

He can also take his HST and stuff it. ;)

#6 mollygirl21

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 08:55 AM

Hi Rick,

Great idea...you know I've got lots to say on the subject. You posted a blog I wrote about this topic in the articles section on the home page and you are more than welcome to use anything from that blog or anything else I've said on the topic in the past. I'll post some more thoughts when I have some more time to think about it.

MG
  • Rick likes this
After 3+ years, my cycle history is quite long. For details on each cycle, please visit my "About Me" page

Trying since fall 2007
All tests show normal (we're "unexplained")

COH+IUI in Nov 08 = BFN
IVF # 1 Feb 09 - BFN
IVF #2 June 2009 - BFP
13 week u/s showed a missed m/c. Baby stopped developing around 8 weeks. Damn.

Moving on to adoption :)
March 22, 2010 - finished PRIDE classes
waiting to begin homestudy sometime in the next two years. That's not a typo - TWO YEARS
Feb 2012 - got a call that they are ready to start our home study...putting off all adoption decisions for at least 6 months because I am 2 weeks from my due date (see below)

Feb 2011 - we've been offered donor embryos! FET in a few months after preliminary tests are done...
FET June 2011:
May 7 - start suprefact and low dose aspirin (on CD21)
May 14 - AF started - super heavy and I'm super cranky. Headaches from the suprefact too
May 21 - starting Estrace and both of us start antibiotics
June 3 - u/s to check lining
June 8 - FET
June 21 - Beta is 564. June 24 Beta is 2286
July 12 - first u/s at 7w1d
Aug 18 - second u/s at 12w4d - everything looks great
Aug 30 - first prenatal appt
Oct 6 - 20w anatomy scan, could find out the sex!
It's a BOY!!
EDD is Feb 26, 2012
beautiful healthy baby boy born March 1, 2012 <3

My friend ButterflyKiss provided this quote from Laura Bush's book and I think it captures how many of us feel:"The English language lacks the words to mourn an absence... for someone who was never there at all, we are wordless to capture that particular emptiness. For those who deeply want children and are denied them, those missing babies hover like silent, ephemeral shadows over their lives. Who can describe the feel of a tiny hand that is never held?"

#7 Rick

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 01:56 PM

We get 350-450 members log in every day. Please consider participating if you haven't already. Your contribution can be helpful to IVFers.
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#8 Zeukko

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 02:31 PM

Zuekko - I saw that interview with Kevin Falcon....he's an idiot. If the reason for refusing treatment is that the odds are against us, then the Province should stop funding any and all treatment for those who are diagnosed as terminally ill.....after all, it's futile isn't it? Of course no one would ever support that, nor should they - it's a ridiculous notion. Try again Kevin, and at least do a little research and come up with something a bit more logical.

:) Jen


He is an idiot. And can you believe that he's running for leadership/Premier? Someone who is so uninformed about his own portfolio, wants to run our province. Ugh. I hate BC politics.
  • Rick likes this
Me:42 and DH: 44
Married since 2004
Two amazing furbabies
TTC since Feb 2009
Sept-Dec 2010: Clomid + 5 IUIs = BFN :(
March 2011- IVF/ICSI#1: antagonist - BCP, Puregon, Orgalutron, Ovidrel, Crinone = BFN
22 follicles; 14 eggs; 11 fertilized; 2 transferred; 1 snowbaby
FET #1 May 2011- 1 grade 2 blastocyst = BFN
August 2011 - IVF #2:antagonist - BCP, Puregon, Orgalutron, Ovidrel, Crinone = BFN
21 follicles; 12 eggs; 10 fertilized; 3 transferred; 5 3d embryos frozen
FET #2 Oct 2011 = BFN FET#3 July 2012 = BFP @ Genesis Fertility Clinic Beta #1= 41 (gulp); Beta #2= 47 (ugh) = Chemical pregnancy
February 2013 - IVF #3 = BFP - Estrace, Menopur, Puregon, Orgalutron, Endometrin - Retrieved 14 egg, 11 mature, 9 fertilized. Transferred 2 blastocysts. 1 blastocyst snow babyBeta#1: 45 (uh oh)Beta#2: 555 (what?! Wow!)
Beta #3000+.
U/S shows not viable pregnancy. Stopped growing at 5w5days.


July 1st: Natural BFP on HPT - First Beta in the 400s; Second Beta dropped to 200s

April 2014: Single embryo transfer = BFN

Looking into adoption.

#9 Savvy

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 04:26 PM

Hey Rick,
On one question is asks:

If private and public funding options co-existed, would you....
Wait longer for public funded service (11 votes [42.31%])
Pay privately rather than wait (15 votes [57.69%])


I just wanted to add that if I was in my early to mid 20's, waiting for public funded service would be a painful wait but, I would probably go that route. However, in my early 30's I would try to put my name on the public funded wait list and hope for the best, but also go ahead with the private route in the meantime.

I keep reading this over and hope this makes sense. If not, just let me know and I'll try to explain myself better, LOL.
  • Rick likes this

Started TTC in October 2007
IVF #1 May/June 2010 - 12 eggs retrieved, 6 fertilized, 3 transferred, BFN & no frosties
IVF #2 Oct/Nov 2010 - 6 eggs retrieved, 6 fertilized, 2 transferred, BFN & 1 frozen embryo
FET #1 March 2011 - BFN
IVF #3 Aug/Sept 2011 - 8 eggs retrieved, 6 fertilized, 2 transferred, 1 frozen embryo, BFP - It's a boy!

FET #2 March 2014 - BFN

IVF #4 Aug/Sept 2014 - 2 follicles - Cancelled due to poor response

IVF #5 April 2015 -  9 follicles, 6 eggs, 3 fertilized, 2 transferred, no frosties, Beta#1 12dp3dt - 110 / Beta#2 18dp3dt- 491 / Beta#3 22dp3dt - 3032 / Beta#4 @8wks - 55,525 + u/s @8wks revealed baby 3 weeks behind + u/s @10wks no heartbeat / Misscarriage


#10 Rick

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 04:36 PM

Hey Rick,
On one question is asks:

If private and public funding options co-existed, would you....
Wait longer for public funded service (11 votes [42.31%])
Pay privately rather than wait (15 votes [57.69%])


I just wanted to add that if I was in my early to mid 20's, waiting for public funded service would be a painful wait but, I would probably go that route. However, in my early 30's I would try to put my name on the public funded wait list and hope for the best, but also go ahead with the private route in the meantime.

I keep reading this over and hope this makes sense. If not, just let me know and I'll try to explain myself better, LOL.

Yes, that makes sense to me. Thanks for the explanation.

#11 Rick

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 04:39 PM

There are some interesting trends appearing. i.e I assumed that even with a longer wait, a public system would reduce stress. But it appears to be a stress creator (likely dependent on age).

#12 FuzzyFur

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 05:29 PM

I ditto LMC's note about waiting. I was 33 when we got married and after 6 months of trying I was referred to our Clinic....after that it was another 5-6 months before we got an appointment and then another year before our first IVF treatment. By that time I was 36 and time was of the essence. Had I been younger I would have been able to stand the wait of a "public" system - in the private system I waited about 1 1/2 years so it's not all that fast!

Also wondering if you could clarify the "First Come, First Served" option. I took that to mean that there would be a limited amount of funding each year and the first to need it would get it.....I'm not sure if that's actually what you were getting at. My husband wondered if you meant - if you needed ART it would be paid for.

We were able to "afford" payment for services so, due to my age, I would be willing to pay providing the wait times were astronomically different between private & public.

:) Jen
  • Rick likes this
Me:39 DH:40
TTC since Aug 2005
Male Factor - Embolization Surgery Jan 2007 - didn't work

IVF #1 - Start Synarel Aug 22/07
Sept 17/07 - ER!!!!!!!! 16 eggs retrieved - all ICSI

Sept 18/07 - 15 eggs injected - 7 embrios (grow embies grow!)
Sept 20/07 - ET - 10am - 2 beautliful 8-cell Grade 1 embrios!
Oct 05/07 - 15dp3dt BFP!! - Beta 1100
Oct 13/07 - 2nd Beta 15717!!!
Oct 19/07 - 1st U/S (6w4d) - 1 healthy baby - 120pbm!
Nov 26/07 - 1st Prenatal visit - Heartbeat 154bpm
Jan 30/08 - Ultrasound! (21w2d)
DUE DATE - June 10, 2008


June 23/08 - Griffin Patrick is here! 8lbs 5oz - 22 inches long

June 9/09-Here we go again! FET#1
July 17/09 - CYCLE CANCELLED - not responding to meds[/color]
Aug 15/09 - FET#1 - round 2!
Sept 1 - ET - welcome home frosties!
Sept 15 - 14dp5dt BFP!! - Beta 957 - wooohooo!
Oct 9 - 7w6d - u/s # 2 - no growth....this one is over


IVF/ICSI #2 (Flare protocol)
Nov 16/09 - CD3 b/w & u/s - start Superfact injections
Nov 18/09 - CD5 - start stims - E2 116 - 200iu Puregon
Nov 20/09 - CD7 - E2 2209 - 125iu Puregon
Nov 23/09 - CD10 - E2 14094 - no stims, Superfact only
Nov 24/09 - CD11 - E2 15963 - no stims, no Superfact
Nov 25/09 - CD12 - E2 11780 - hcg trigger 9pm
Nov 27/09 - ER - 11 eggs retrieved - all ICSI
Nov 28/09 - 6 eggs fertilized - grow embies, grow!
Nov 30/09 - ET - Grade2, 10-cell & Grade3, 8-cell
Dec 14/09 - 14dp3dt BFP!! Beta 550 (cautiously optimistic)
Dec 21/09 - 21dp3dt - Beta 8031 - YAY!
Jan 08/10 - 8 weeks - u/s - one healthy bean h/b 167bpm
DUE DATE - Aug 20, 2010

Sept 1/10 - Declan James is here! 7lbs 15 3/4oz - 20 inches long

Are there any more in our future??? 1 frostie remains

#13 silverdollar

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 06:08 PM

There are currently long wait times within the private system for some patients, so just because you are paying does not necessarily mean you get instant treatment. If I have to wait anyway, I'd rather wait for public funding.

The problem with a diagnosis based triage is that "unexplained" IF gets bumped to the bottom.

The problem with an age-based triage is that there are some younger women with poor ovarian reserve, or conditions that can get worse with time like endometriosis.

The decision of how many embryos to transfer depends on a multitude of factors aside from age. The embryo quality, the uterine conditions, the woman's history of IVF cycles/ miscarriage etc. This decision should be considered on a case by case basis not a hard and fast rule.

Canada needs to get out of the dark ages and fund IVF for all citizens in all provinces, not just selected ones.
  • Rick likes this

Unexplained IF/ DOR. Began TTC in 2008.
After a wild and crazy ride on the treatment train, our baby GIRL arrived on Jan 6, 2012
Hold on.... Surprise spontaneous just 7 months postpartum while still breastfeeding!!! Baby boy born May 2, 2013
My heart couldn't be more full :)
 
Full details are now in my profile "About Me" page

#14 kerrilyn

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 10:28 AM

This is a letter I wrote a while ago to our Helth Minister... feel free to use anything from it.

"Thank you for taking the time to read this letter. I am writing to you today to bring an issue to the forefront that has become very near and dear to me. My name is Kerri-Lyn Jessop. I am 36 years old and have resided in Ontario my entire life. My story goes as many others have. I was raised by two loving parents, got my first job at the age of 13, worked through high school, attended university, started my career, met my husband and decided to start a family.

At the time, I didn’t think that being 34 years of age would hinder our chances of starting a family. Two years, countless tests, numerous treatments and thousands of dollars later, we have been diagnosed with “unexplained infertility” and we still have not been able to have a child.

It is through these experiences that I have discovered that our healthcare system, which I have paid into for 23 years, will not be helping me in my quest to fight this ailment known as infertility. The government does not fund IVF treatments, the only treatment that will be able to fulfill our dreams of becoming parents. If my lungs don't function, I can see a doctor to fix them. If my heart doesn't function I can see a surgeon to fix it. If my uterus or ovaries don't function, the government says too bad for my luck.

If we are going to have public healthcare system it should work equally for all citizens and all ailments.

When I share our journey with people I often find myself having to explain why I shouldn't have to pay for IVF. This explanation usually follows on the heels of a gasp when they realize how much money it costs followed by a statement to the effect of “I don’t know that I would spend that kind of money". I wonder how people would feel if they new the costs of each doctor’s visit or their trip to the ER. I must admit I have been guilty of arguing on the side of "well… such-and-such is covered so why shouldn't IVF be?", but I have realized that this is not a valid argument. It’s not about who is worthy of what, it is about the fact that we, as tax paying citizens, are all worthy.

When things like the “Pram Push for IVF Funding” raises the issue about government funding for IVF it is often met with ignorant remarks from the general public. One of their primary arguments is that “their tax dollars should not be used to pay for me to have a child”. But funny I am also a taxpayer. I also pay into a system that funds a great deal of things that I will never have a use for.

My tax dollars pay for many things including Ontario Health Insurance Program (OHIP). OHIP is a publicly funded program that covers basic health care services in Ontario. There are 4800 different services that can be billed to OHIP. Infertility is not one of them. It has been argued that IVF is not a “necessity” and therefore is not covered. Who is this judge who determines "necessity"? I don't think I was ever asked what services I would like covered and what ones I wouldn't. If I am paying for these services, shouldn't I have a say? Shouldn't we all benefit from the coverage that we all pay for? Shouldn't I have just as much a right to have MY illnesses covered as the next taxpaying citizen does? I don't run to my family doctor with every sniffle, I don't bog down the overcrowded ER when I have the flu and I have never stayed in a hospital. Maybe I should get a credit for not "using the system" and I can apply this credit to cover MY basic medical needs.

My tax deductions are also used towards Government Assistance. A program designed where people in need can apply to the government for assistance should they fall on hard times. I work and pay into the system, I have for 23 years and I have NEVER collected a dime back from the government yet I know people who are receiving "government assistance" who have cell phones & internet, who support their smoking habit, who manage to get their nails and hair done and then decide to have more children which in turn results in the government giving them more money. This is what MY tax dollars pay for? It is certainly not their tax dollars, they don't work. So MY tax dollars should pay for someone else to stay home and have more children but these same tax dollars can't be used to help me have my own child. Where is the fairness in that?

Part of my property taxes are used to fund the public school system. I don't have any children, so I'm not paying for my child's education; I'm helping pay for other people's children's education. The old mantra, it takes a community to raise a child must be what we are following. In and of itself, I have no problem with that. Where's the "community" helping me "raise" my child? For most, child rearing starts when the baby is born, for others, like me; it starts with trying to conceive.

My hard earned money also pays for all of the criminals who are incarcerated in our jail system. Of course this is a necessity; we don't want these thugs running rampant on the streets. We want them incarcerated receiving free therapy, free television, free education and free healthcare. Inmates can go to school and get University Degrees on the taxpayer’s dime but I had to pay for my own University Education and I am now having to pay for my own healthcare needs as well.

I'm sure my tax dollars cover much more than this and I am certainly not arguing that these things shouldn't be covered. I pay for a lot of things that I don't use. I look at it like insurance. If I should ever need to use one of the services that I have paid into for the last 23 years, it is there for me to use it, just like my car insurance. But wait, it's NOT there for me to use it when I need it.

For those that argue that having a child is not a "necessity" I would have to agree, I will not die if I don't have a child, although a part of me may. The point is that our healthcare system should not be judgmental. We should all receive the care we need when we need it. What if "someone" decides one day that the common cold is not life threatening and therefore if you visit your doctor and it is determined that you have a common cold that you will have to pay for that visit? I'm sure what you deem as a necessity may change.

In August 2009 Ontario’s Expert Panel on Infertility and Adoption released their recommendations to the government in regards to funding infertility treatments and making adoption more easily attainable. One of the key arguments made by the expert panel as well as many infertility specialists is that funding IVF will decrease overall health care costs by having regulations in place to decrease the number of high order multiples which is a huge strain on our health care system.

This is not an issue that I struggle with alone. There are thousands of women across the Province that suffer silently from infertility. Many can’t afford the treatments and walk away, while others, including myself, find themselves in debt. Where is OUR healthcare system when we need it?

I hope this letter has served its purpose and you find yourself asking “why are these couples not being helped”. We need a voice within the government to help us stand up for ourselves and to fight for what we are all entitled to as Citizens of Ontario, a fair and equal healthcare system that helps us ALL in our time of need.
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Me (Kerri-Lyn) 41, DH (Steve) 37, TTC since April 2007Unexplained IF (possibly crappy eggs, AMH 10.4 = poor responder) - HSG, SHGx3, Lap, Cycle Monitoring, Recurrent loss bloods, EMB, Karyotyping, DNA Frag - all normal! 7 IUI's, 2 cancelled IVF's, 3 complete IVF's, 1 FET, 2 clinics, 1 early miscarriage, lots of debt, lots of heartache, lots of tears. We rolled the dice and got lucky on our last ditch "close the door" cycle and have a beautiful little girl. April 2014 - Had the crazy notion to try for another. Shocked with a BFP, miscarried @ 8W6D. See my "about me" page for more cycle details.

#15 sweetdreams

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 11:25 AM

There are currently long wait times within the private system for some patients, so just because you are paying does not necessarily mean you get instant treatment. If I have to wait anyway, I'd rather wait for public funding.

The problem with a diagnosis based triage is that "unexplained" IF gets bumped to the bottom.

The problem with an age-based triage is that there are some younger women with poor ovarian reserve, or conditions that can get worse with time like endometriosis.

The decision of how many embryos to transfer depends on a multitude of factors aside from age. The embryo quality, the uterine conditions, the woman's history of IVF cycles/ miscarriage etc. This decision should be considered on a case by case basis not a hard and fast rule.

Canada needs to get out of the dark ages and fund IVF for all citizens in all provinces, not just selected ones.

I totally agree with this.

I would just like to add:

It is not only necessary to fund IVF and pay for treatment cycles, but also to invest in the "infrastructure" (ie. more clinics, qualified and good REs, embryologists etc.) to support it. By funding the treatment cycles and not investing in the system, wait times will just get longer and quality of care can ends up suffering.
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#16 baby4us2

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 08:29 PM

I would just like to add to the long list of qualified reasons that IVF should be funded. This is a medical condition. End of story.

Everyone suffering with infertility is experincing a health related issue. Not only is this causing immense emotionall stress and financial pressure, this is ruining marriages and adding to family and social inadequacies. The government does not want to fund it, but in reality they are funding all the down falls of infertility. Stress leave, debt and new medical issues as a result of the stress.

I know of people who have let their property taxes, mortgages, and credit cards go just to pay for their treatments. If the government doesn't want to pay for it, they should take a look at the real economic downfall that it is causing our community our province and people all around them.

Personally, this has caused many issues. We waited until we had stable careers, new vehicles paid for and a home on acreage before presuing our dreams of becoming parents. We were trying to do it the right way. We were stable in our marriage, finacially secure, mentally and physically prepared to become parents. Now we struggle to hold on to ourselves, struggle with the emotional stress, struggle with the finacial stress and struggle to help our friends and family understand.

At the end of the day any couple prepared to go through all of these procedures, funded or not I believe have done all the necessary steps to ensure that they are ready to become parents. Why should this medical condition be turned down? Even funded, I believe it is not something that would be taken lightly by any participant.

What are they afraid of? I dare them to take a good hard look at the bigger financial position and come up with a logical reason why this should not be funded.

Just my opinion.
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Me 31 DH 40

MFI
Hernia repair, mumps

**Success comes from within, not without**

#17 mollygirl21

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 10:22 AM

I have lots of arguments that roll around inside my head about this issue and I have found myself having debates with the naysayers (in my head!):

IVF is a valid medical treatment for a medical condition. It is proven and although it may not work the first try and not for every patient, there are many other medical treatments that fall into that same category.

Why should my tax dollars pay for you to have a baby? My answer: why should my tax dollars fund your children's playgrounds, schools, gov't benefits, libraries, sports programs, etc? And why did my tax dollars pay for you to make sure you don't have any more babies?

One of my biggest frustrations is when people say that having babies is not a right, it's a choice. I agree. And when a person chooses to not have any more babies, our health care system pays for that choice by paying for the vasectomy or tubal ligation. We have a demographics problem in this country - our population is aging and the birth rate is declining but our gov't will pay to prevent pregnancies but not to help create them. Not only that, there are much cheaper forms of birth control out there, IVF is my only choice to get pregnant. For me, this medical treatment is not a matter of convenience, it is medically necessary. There is absolutely nothing medically necessary about a vasectomy or tubal ligation.

Funded IVF will pay for itself in many ways. First, it will reduce the number of multiples because patients won't feel so desperate to make their one shot work so they won't be so quick to transfer back multiple embryos. When that happens, it is a financial decision, not a medical decision and finances should not cloud good medical judgement but it does with IVF.

The second way IVF will pay for itself is more long term: we are creating babies who will grow up to be tax payers. Any child born from IVF will more than pay back his/her debt to society.

Unfortunately, both of these arguments require the politicians to think further out than the next election and they don't. They get votes based on short term promises and cannot do the right thing for the long term because that doesn't affect them getting elected.

I have more to say but I have to get some work done. i'll be back :)

MG
After 3+ years, my cycle history is quite long. For details on each cycle, please visit my "About Me" page

Trying since fall 2007
All tests show normal (we're "unexplained")

COH+IUI in Nov 08 = BFN
IVF # 1 Feb 09 - BFN
IVF #2 June 2009 - BFP
13 week u/s showed a missed m/c. Baby stopped developing around 8 weeks. Damn.

Moving on to adoption :)
March 22, 2010 - finished PRIDE classes
waiting to begin homestudy sometime in the next two years. That's not a typo - TWO YEARS
Feb 2012 - got a call that they are ready to start our home study...putting off all adoption decisions for at least 6 months because I am 2 weeks from my due date (see below)

Feb 2011 - we've been offered donor embryos! FET in a few months after preliminary tests are done...
FET June 2011:
May 7 - start suprefact and low dose aspirin (on CD21)
May 14 - AF started - super heavy and I'm super cranky. Headaches from the suprefact too
May 21 - starting Estrace and both of us start antibiotics
June 3 - u/s to check lining
June 8 - FET
June 21 - Beta is 564. June 24 Beta is 2286
July 12 - first u/s at 7w1d
Aug 18 - second u/s at 12w4d - everything looks great
Aug 30 - first prenatal appt
Oct 6 - 20w anatomy scan, could find out the sex!
It's a BOY!!
EDD is Feb 26, 2012
beautiful healthy baby boy born March 1, 2012 <3

My friend ButterflyKiss provided this quote from Laura Bush's book and I think it captures how many of us feel:"The English language lacks the words to mourn an absence... for someone who was never there at all, we are wordless to capture that particular emptiness. For those who deeply want children and are denied them, those missing babies hover like silent, ephemeral shadows over their lives. Who can describe the feel of a tiny hand that is never held?"

#18 mollygirl21

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 10:36 AM

One more thing for now...whenever there is an article published on this topic, there are many comments and one of the common themes is that we infertile women should basically suck it up and accept that we can't have children.

They are asking me to suppress my God-given, natural urge to procreate, to nurture, to give birth. If I used that same argument to a man who no longer wanted childre, I would be telling him to suppress his natural urge to have sex so we could save the tax payers from having to pay for his vasectomy.

Ok, that one's a stretch and I came up with it when I was agitated but really, why should I have to suppress my natural desire to have a baby just because I can't afford the medical treatment? Increasing the birth rate in this country will be to the benefit of everyone.
After 3+ years, my cycle history is quite long. For details on each cycle, please visit my "About Me" page

Trying since fall 2007
All tests show normal (we're "unexplained")

COH+IUI in Nov 08 = BFN
IVF # 1 Feb 09 - BFN
IVF #2 June 2009 - BFP
13 week u/s showed a missed m/c. Baby stopped developing around 8 weeks. Damn.

Moving on to adoption :)
March 22, 2010 - finished PRIDE classes
waiting to begin homestudy sometime in the next two years. That's not a typo - TWO YEARS
Feb 2012 - got a call that they are ready to start our home study...putting off all adoption decisions for at least 6 months because I am 2 weeks from my due date (see below)

Feb 2011 - we've been offered donor embryos! FET in a few months after preliminary tests are done...
FET June 2011:
May 7 - start suprefact and low dose aspirin (on CD21)
May 14 - AF started - super heavy and I'm super cranky. Headaches from the suprefact too
May 21 - starting Estrace and both of us start antibiotics
June 3 - u/s to check lining
June 8 - FET
June 21 - Beta is 564. June 24 Beta is 2286
July 12 - first u/s at 7w1d
Aug 18 - second u/s at 12w4d - everything looks great
Aug 30 - first prenatal appt
Oct 6 - 20w anatomy scan, could find out the sex!
It's a BOY!!
EDD is Feb 26, 2012
beautiful healthy baby boy born March 1, 2012 <3

My friend ButterflyKiss provided this quote from Laura Bush's book and I think it captures how many of us feel:"The English language lacks the words to mourn an absence... for someone who was never there at all, we are wordless to capture that particular emptiness. For those who deeply want children and are denied them, those missing babies hover like silent, ephemeral shadows over their lives. Who can describe the feel of a tiny hand that is never held?"

#19 Yvonne

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 01:59 PM

My husband and I are both young and healthy. Infertility is the only medical issue we have. We only go to the doctor for our annual check ups. We do not have need to use the medical system for any others reasons right now. We pay taxes and for many years we also paid Alberta Healthcare premiums each month yet we now are paying tens of thousands of dollars to pay for IVF which is the only treatment option for our infertility. It is mind boggling to find out that we seem to have the only medical condition that our public health system will not cover.
Started ttc in fall 04
m/[email protected] weeks in April 2005
2006 found out about pcos and male factor
Decided to adopt.....approved and waiting until agency closed in Nov. 2009
:(IVF#1 July/August 2010 No transfer due to OHSS 10 frozen embryos :)
FET#1 Oct 14 2010 beta #1 was 7, beta#2 was negative :(
FET#2-Jan. 27 2011-BFNFET #3-July 1, 2011.-BFP! looked okay for a while then ended "pregnancy of unknown location"Four embryos left.
FET#4-Feb. 17, 2012 two embryos transferred-grow embies grow! beta #1 44, #2 51 #3 207, #4 375...Found out it was ectopic lost the embies and both tubes-
I'm single now FET #5 in November 2014 BFN
FET #6 in February 2015.

#20 Duck

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 03:17 PM

I agree that ivf should be funded, but disagree with the single embryo transfer criteria, the amount of embryos to transfer should be a medical decision made by the doctor.

Also, it's important that the coverage include those working with egg donors or surrogates.

All that said, if there were long wait times in the public system I would go private, the longer we wait, the older I get and the egg quality decreases, time is important.

Diagnosed with endometrosis at age 19

5 pelvic surgeries

2 IVF, numerous FETs

2 different gestational carriers

Now mother of 2 year old twins.


#21 ladyjayne

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 01:10 PM

This one is hard for me. I do agree that IVF should be publicly funded. But I wonder if it was, would I have even been covered? Technically, my wife and I don't have any fertility problems, we're just missing sperm. We could have gone the much easier/cheaper route of inseminating me with donor sperm. But the only way for us to both be "involved" in this is IVF (me physically by carrying and birthing our baby, and her genetically by 'donating' her eggs).

Anyway, I do think it should be funded, but I suspect that even if it were, we'd have been SOL anyway.

Me 29 DW 33
Two wombs, no sperm
The Plan: IVF - her eggs, my womb, donor sperm

June 4: polyp removal
June 23: started BCP
June 29: DW started BCP
July 6: last day of BCP for me, DW starts Lupron
July 10: I started Estrace
July 18: DW started stims
July 28: ER! 12 retrieved, 9 mature, 5 fertilized
July 31: ET!
Aug 12: First beta 499!
Feeling thrilled but cautiously optimistic.
Sept 11: u/s looks good.
Oct 6: u/s still looking good!
December 2: Anatomy scan 'unremarkable', which in this case is a good thing.
Due April 20th!

 

Healthy, happy, beautiful baby girl born April 19, 2011!


#22 papoose76

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 01:56 PM

I live in Manitoba where as of October 1/2010, 40% of the cost of ART procedures/meds are being refunded as part of the new "Fertility Tax Credit". I'm not sure if this new tax credit had an impact on my wait time for ivf in 2010 as I had not done any ART procedure before that. I signed up and paid my registration fee in January 2010, and cycled in October 2010. My IVF failed and I immediately put myself back on the list for another cycle. I was told the wait would be 8-9 months from November. My sister (who is also infertile and has been ttc for 7 years) decided that she would like to pursue ivf also and registered two weeks after I did and HER wait was 10-12 months!! Someone on this site said that Heartland has added another week to their egg retrievals, as before they only did two weeks at a time and now they are going to do three weeks at a time. I don't know if there is just more patients being referred to Heartland, or just more Heartland patients now deciding to do ART? In any case, the wait times are ridiculous!! If I could afford it, and money was NOT a factor I would definitely go cycle somewhere with a much shorter wait time. My follow up to my ivf is not even until January 13th!! That's pretty much 3 months post-ivf. Manitoba needs to open another fertility clinic. There is definitely a demand for it.

Me (Nona): 36 DH (Greg):36 2 stepkids (age 12 & 14)
I have been a teacher since 2002.
TTC my first since 1999 (through 2 marriages)
One natural pregnancy (ectopic) May 21, 2009 :'(
IVF #1 (October 2010)
long protocol: 3 eggs retrieved, 2 fertilized and transferred. BFN.
IVF #2 (October 2011)
short flare protocol: 10 eggs retrieved, 9 fertilized, 2 transferred, 7 frosties.
BFP (beta- 112, then 133, then 31) lost the pregnancy :'(
HSG- December 20/11 (right side blocked w/ hydro at end, left side open)...
FET #1 (March 2012)
u/s on March 16th, transferred 3 embies March 23rd
beta on April 5th- BFN (less than 1.2)
4 frosties left.... need further implantation testing...
Lap on April 13th: removed what was left of right tube, freed up left tube. Hysteroscopy and lysis of adhesions.

Breakup of marriage, December/12... I am giving up on TTC.


#23 ivfsurvivor

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 01:19 AM

IVF for those with Federal Health Care is now covered to the level of Quebec, yeah for those of us who benefit. I THINK that MP's have Federal Health Care, so they are now funded, which would account for the MP's stance. Members of the RCMP and DND are now covered for sure.

When they started funding in Europe the inital response went up, but since then the demand for IVF has gone down. Even from what it was when it was privately funded. The provinces would pay more at the beginning but ultimately their costs would go down. Alberta is dropping insured services left and right, so I don't know if we will ever get coverage. I hope so. So many people need it. Who says that you don't deserve a child, just because you have issues. I don't expect my DD to follow in my footsteps and join the RCMP, so I need to battle for her. She is little now, but who says she isn't going to need the service when it comes time. I hope she can access it without a huge fight if she needs it.
I'm gonna go now. My time here is done, and it's time to move on. I am on Facebook and if you'd like to be my friend PM me, I will leave this account active for awhile, but not for too much longer.

It's been a blast(ocyst) (my lame attempt a IF humor)

T.

#24 hazypeanut

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 06:26 AM

Is there an article saying its covered now???? because we are sending in a re claim if this is really happening! We are DND.

1997 July.. DD born, from a previous relationship. Born on her due date.

2006 Oct, Married my best friend.
2007 Oct, Journey to conception starts( although in the 8 yrs we have been together we have never used BC)
2007 July 14th Hubby leaves for Afghanistan for 2 months.
2007 Oct, hubby leaves again for Afghanistan
2008 Jan 1st, Hubby returns
2008 Jan, blocked tube on left and removal of baseball sized cyst on rt ovary
2008 April started on clomid for 6 months
Referred to Dr. Ried in Kingston, more tests show no tube blockage. But does show stage 4 endo.
IUI # 1 BFN
IUI # 2 BFN
3rd cycle cancelled due to not responding to meds very well.
Referred to Dr. Min at the OFC

IVF #1

June 1st consent signing
Baseline ultrasound revealed 16 follicles, and FSH of 7! previous day 3 had shown 9 and high estrogen levels.
June 29th 2010 Education session, done...hurry up day one!
Aug 10th Called in Day #1
Aug 15th-sept 4th Start BCP
Aug 25th started suprefact
Sept 10 bw
Sept 11 Started puregon 350 u
Sept 15th first us.
Sept 18th second us and bw.. a bunch of small follicles.. and 4 measurable ones cycle maybe cancelled.
Sept 19th 3rd ultrasound ... 18 follicles and 8! good sized follicles. Cycle is back on..and 2 surprise follicles on the right!!!
Sept 20th us and bw.
Sept 21 bw and us DAY 11
Sept 22 bw and us.. ready for trigger tonight! 8 good follies, one at 20 the rest following suit.
Sept 24 ER..7 follicles harvested, 6 eggs retrieved.
Sept 25 call from lab, 4 eggs Mature, 3 eggs fertilized. Can't believe we have made it this far!
We are in love with our embryos!! GROW EMBIES GROW!!!!!!
Sept 27 Transfered 2 sweet little embryos.. one 7 cell the other an 8, on day 3. Sadly none to freeze
Oct 12 is BETA day!! im PUPO until then! Still waiting on blood results..
Couldnt take it any more and POAS..
BETA #1 700.
Ultrasound Oct 27th.
BFP!!!!!!!! OMG! ))
Nov 26th First OB appt. Couldnt find heartbeat, still early? 86.5 kg.
Dec 2nd bought doppler heard heartbeat and fell in love again.
Dec 16th ultrasound.
Dec 22nd 2nd OB appt. Heard heartbeat, such music :)88.5 kg.
Jan 21st 3rd OB appt. 89.2 kg
Feb 9th anatomy scan and sex of baby!!!
ITS A GIRL!!! YAY!
Feb 23 OB appt.. 91.1 kg Placenta completely covering cervix.
Mar 25 OB appt.. 94.3 kg
Apr 06 OB appt..
Apr 12 U/S to check placenta and cervix.
May 3rd OB talked about having C section no later than 37 weeks if placenta in same position.. oh my! thats 3 weeks!
May 6th U/S to check placenta..tech says its the same as they have been telling the doc all along..i assume its still covering.. will find out wed at OB appt.
Scheduled C section May 24th, 2011

Baby girl Madeleine was born weighing 4 lbs 11 oz.

 

IN THE PROCESS OF STARTING ANOTHER FRESH CYCLE....YAY!!

Second fresh IVF failed. :(


#25 hopesprings

hopesprings

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 08:52 AM

Please read and circulate article called "When I Failed at Being Human" in the Spring 2010 issue of Creating Families magazine (Canada's leading infertility magazine).The magazine is available and published by IAAC (infertility awareness association of canada)

http://www.iaac.ca/IAACF

This piece really gets to the heart of the issue - namely, that infertility is a "medical issue" for most of us and should be treated and provided medical coverage as such; anything less in terms of coverage by the healthcare system is absolute discrimination, at worst, and short-sighted and ill-informed, at best.

It should also be sung from the rooftops that the World Health Organization officially declared, in 2010, that infertility is a DISEASE - that is, a medical issue - so those who suffer from it can no longer be dismissed or denied proper medical treatment!!!!

I strongly support public funding, in other words.
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