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Thin Endometrial Lining - please help!

Lining endometrium complex

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#1 Falcon89

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 03:39 AM

So the last year has been a hard one for us. I was diagnosed with several large cysts as a result of multiple adhesions and endometriosis due to surgery for Crohns disease (surgery was 10 years ago). These cysts and adhesions were all removed but at the same time we found my Fallopian tubes were damaged beyond repair and had come out. Since then we have been trying IVF but keep running into barriers.

To date we have overcome everything but one thing - my lining just won't thicken. We have tried injections, creams, tablets. But to no success. All my tests show my uterus is in good condition and even with incredibly large doses of estrogen my lining just won't go higher than 6mm.

We are now thinking it may be a blood flow issue but don't know what to try from here.

Has anyone found themselves in a similar situation and what tactics have you used to get things working?

Any tips, tricks or tatics would be very much appreciated.
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#2 returnable

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 09:53 AM

A few questions/ideas:

 

I am just wondering if your clinic is adamant on a greater than 6 mm lining? A 6 mm lining thickness does not  mean you won't get pregnant.

 

I struggled with lining thickness and determined that it was most likely due to a specific blood pressure medication that I was on. Are you taking any medication? Doctors don't necessarily know which medications have an effect on lining.

 

Read this article, not sure if you had ever considered any of the supplements and ideas: https://natural-fert...-naturally.html



#3 Falcon89

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 03:11 PM

Hi Returnable

In the beginning they were adamant that the lining needed to be 8mm or over but for the last year it just refuses to do that. We have been doing cycles almost every month but have only gone through a transfer twice ( first time lining was over 6mm but second time was under 6mm), all the rest of the cycles were cancelled before transfer because they were not happy with the lining.

Other than the various medications (which change with every new cycle) for IVF, I am also on Imuran which is a immune suppressant, however I have been told by both my Crohns and IVF specialists that this medication shouldn't be effecting anything.

Thank you for your article suggestion, I will definitely read it. Anything that will help is so much appreciated.

#4 Tess

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 09:56 PM

have you tried transdermal estrogen patches?  3 estradot patches at a time every 3 days?   Vitamin E might help w blood flow around margins. I've heard some people try viagra for blood flow.



#5 Falcon89

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 02:51 AM

Hi Tess

In our last cycle we used estrogel which is the gel version of the patches. I took that with additional tablets and by the end had a estrogen readout of 10,600 (normal is about 1,000) but it still didn't budge that lining. We may try the patches in this next cycle.

I read through the article sent by Returnable which gave great ideas and have gone and bought some vitamin E and l-arginine to try.

Never heard of viagra being used before. That's interesting.

Thanks for your feedback:-)

#6 returnable

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 09:55 AM

As far as I remember from one member on here she had to get the Viagra pills compounded so that she could insert them vaginally. That seemed to be the protocol for her, though I don't remember it working in the end.



#7 returnable

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 10:04 AM

I am not really a believer in "alternate" medicine but I was willing to give ANYTHING a try as well as I was struggling with lining. Again I resolved it (I think) by changing my prescription medication which I believe was affecting my blood flow. However, I was on the following protocol based on the link and the backup studies that the naturopath had based the info on:

 

Vitamin E - 300 IU two times a day, though the study paper suggested 200 IU three times a day but my pills came in 300 IU

L'Arginine - 2 grams three times a day

Black cohosh - 4 mg twice a day

red raspberry leaf tea steeped for a long time three times a day

Vitamin B12 - just one pill that is the extended release one

 

I tried to evenly space out each supplement during the day, so the twice a day things every 12 hours, and the three times a day things every 8 hours. Again, I'm not sure that this really did anything for me, I just provide it based on the link and the backup papers for that work.



#8 Falcon89

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 07:03 PM

Thanks Returnable.

I've purchased the vitamin E and L-arginine and will give that a try. Will give the raspberry leaf a go too. I've also joined the local gym to get the blood flowing.

Thanks for telling me your doses. I had no idea what to take and my doctor hasn't gotten back to me. This morning I just winged it and took 2 (120mg) vitamin E tablets (that's what it said on the bottle) and 6g of l-arginine in water as that was what the article you sent spoke of (not tasty at all!) But spreading it out sounds like a good plan.

At this point I am willing to try anything if it means a thickened lining.

Thank you all so much for the advice and tips, I don't feel so alone anymore.

#9 hopefuldadsomeday

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 03:50 AM

My wife struggle with thin lining as well (see my signature).  She tried the viagra vaginally but didn't seem to do anything and gave up as it was also messy...natural stuff she tried included raspberry leaf tea, pomegranate juice, and acupuncture.  In the end, what "worked" for us was estradiol valerate injections, and even then we barely got 7mm.  Our 3rd cycle worked at 6.9mm thickness and our DD was born last June.  We also had an ERA test which showed my wife was 1 day pre-receptive.  Our next step if we didn't succeed was to look into PRP as there seemed to be some small studies that suggested it may work for thin lining.


March 2016 - Miscarriage #1 (chemical pregnancy)

August 2016 -  Miscarriage #2 (Trisomy-16)

December 2016 - Miscarriage #3 (unknown - suspected chromosomal abnormality)

IVF #1 - Aug 2017 (estrogen priming antagonist protocol) - 9 eggs retrieved, 3 fertilized, 2 blastocysts, only 1 PGS normal embryo 5BB mitoscore 25.1 (frozen)

IVF #2 - Nov 2017 (estrogen priming antagonist protocol - with testosterone priming and growth hormone) - 7 eggs retrieved, 5 fertilized with ICSI, 1 blastocyst PGS-normal 5BB mitoscore 33.12 (frozen)

IVF #3 - Jan 2018 (estrogen priming antagonist protocol with growth hormone) -  4 eggs retrieved, 2 fertilized with ICSI, 1 blastocyst PGS-normal 6BB mitoscore 29.82 (frozen)

FET #1 - March 2018 - cancelled due to thin lining (6.25mm)

FET #1.2 - April 2018 - cancelled due to thin lining again! (4.85mm)

FET #1.3 - June 4, 2018 (lining 7.5mm!) - th_abfn.gif

ERA Aug 2018 - Pre-receptive by 1 day

FET #2 - Sep 18, 2018 (lining 6.9mm) th_abfp.gif  Beta #1: Sep 30, 2018 - 682  Beta #2: Oct 6,2018 - 6656 U/S: Oct 15 - measuring 6w4d (CRL 6.87mm), HR 127bpm! U/S: Oct 25 - measuring 8w1d (CRL 16.69mm), HR 168bpm!  Discharged to midwives!  June 7, 2019: It's a girl!  DD born 7lb 2oz babygirl.gif


#10 Graceland

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 08:19 AM

This is such a challenging problem, I totally sympathize. There are a couple of awesome threads on this topic that I will try to dig up for you...

Twin girls born December 2017 after 7 years of TTC

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#11 Graceland

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 08:25 AM

Here’s one: https://ivf.ca/forum...12#entry2647481

Twin girls born December 2017 after 7 years of TTC

See 'About Me' for full details


#12 Graceland

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 08:29 AM

And here’s another: https://ivf.ca/forum...e-lining-issue/

I just wanted to add that I dealt with this for a very long time. We had so many cancelled cycles because my lining just would NOT thicken. What I learned is there is no magic cure for everyone. There will be a lot of trial and error, but I have no doubt that you will find the magic combination for your body. For me, it was a combination of estrogen and sildenadil (a.k.a. generic Viagra) taken vaginally. My lining got to 7.1 mm with no triple stripe. We transferred anyway because it was the best it had ever been. My twin daughters just turned two. :)

Best of luck to you. I know how absolutely challenging it is.

Twin girls born December 2017 after 7 years of TTC

See 'About Me' for full details


#13 Falcon89

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 01:48 AM

Thank you so much Hopefuldadsomeday and Graceland. These are options I will definitely discuss with my specialist and see if we haven't tried these already.

We are going with a fresh cycle this time to collect more eggs so when I know what medications we are using this time I will let everyone know. So far we have tried:

Gonal f
Pergoveris
Progynova
Clomid
Utrogestan
Clexaine
Aspirin
Estrogel
Orgalutran
Least 30 ED

I'm sure there are a few more in the list but at present I cannot recall anymore.

#14 returnable

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 10:29 AM

Thank you so much Hopefuldadsomeday and Graceland. These are options I will definitely discuss with my specialist and see if we haven't tried these already.

We are going with a fresh cycle this time to collect more eggs so when I know what medications we are using this time I will let everyone know. So far we have tried:

Gonal f
Pergoveris
Progynova
Clomid
Utrogestan
Clexaine
Aspirin
Estrogel
Orgalutran
Least 30 ED

I'm sure there are a few more in the list but at present I cannot recall anymore.

 

I'm just thinking if you are doing another retrieval perhaps those alternate meds I mentioned should be put on hold. I purely did them for an FET and am not sure if they may have a negative impact on your quantity and quality of eggs retrieved.



#15 Falcon89

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 04:11 PM

Hi Returnable.

When I mentioned the vitamin E and L-arginine to my doctor he said to give it a try knowing we were going through a fresh cycle. I've held off all the other supplements just in case. I have also started going regularly to the gym (my dreaded nemesis) and was considering trying accupunture. Should I look at accupunture while doing a fresh cycle or should I hold off until a frozen cycle?

We have done fresh cycles twice now. The first cycle was terrible, with bad quality eggs and lining due to the endo and adhesions. The second was much better with excellent eggs (but only 2 could be frozen) and a lining just over 7mm but due to the multiple surgeries close together, working full time, renovating a house and just not resting well enough my body reached its limit at the last moment had to cancel the cycle (literally in the transfer office curled into a ball on the floor with the most horrible back pain imaginable - not hyperstimulation luckily). So hopefully with my body now in good condition and well rested this next cycle will get the results we need.

#16 Jerbitts

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 07:43 AM

I've seen videos on Youtube about yoga for thickening of the endometrial lining. The talk abut food as well. 



#17 blue84

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Posted 11 April 2020 - 04:16 PM

Hi Falcon89 - I also have been dealing with stubborn thin lining. Weve had two fets cancelled (lining stuck at 5mm), then managed to get my lining to 7 mm and we had a failed fet.

I used a combination of meds and supplements and exercise and Im happy to outline what I did, even though it ultimately wasnt successful and now we are in a waiting period for Covid to resolve.

#18 Falcon89

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Posted 12 April 2020 - 01:47 AM

Hi guys. Thanks for the comments. Blue84 - I'd love to hear what strategies you have tried.
I have recently gone through another cycle, this one being a fresh cycle. My specialists put me on pergoveris, orgalutran, trental (to try and boost blood flow to the uterus) and vitamin E. I also started going to the gym 3 days a week and accupunture once a week.
The results were both good and bad... my lining got up to 6.9mm which is the best it has ever been however they were only able to collect 4 eggs this round (usually I get 10 or so) and only 1 made it to transfer day, I was also told it wasn't the best quality for a day 5 egg. I'm told that getting a small number of eggs can happen but it still makes me so sad after all i went through to get them.
I now have 3 days to go for my expected period date and the specialists have me on utrogestan, trental, vitamin E and Crinone.
I don't feel very optimistic about this round and what is worse is that our government has now shut down all future IVF cycles until the Corona virus is settled. This makes me really devastated as I feel if this round doesn't work we have no idea when we can try again. :-(

#19 returnable

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Posted 03 June 2021 - 09:39 AM

Reviving this thread yet again in case someone else is struggling with this. Over the past year I had three attempts at an FET with struggles to get to a good lining for all three. The first cycle resulted in a BFN, while the other two cycles were cancelled. I have tried vaginal estrace and patches, I have tried a stim protocol in the past, all to no avail. In March I got an EMMA test which showed that although I did not have a high percentage of bad bacteria, my mix wasn't quite right. I also for the first time consulted with a naturopath. Although not related to a thin lining, she did find my beta carotene too high (due to Pregvit prenatals) and despite taking ~2000IU vitamin D daily for years, my blood levels were on the low end. So besides prescribing supplements to hopefully help with the thin lining for the next round, she also modified my prenatals and increased my vitamin D dosage.

 

Here is a summary what I have been trying (brand names and types are very specific as for example Vitamin E can vary in composition), so I followed the recommendations to a T.

 

  • Vaginal boric acid for 7 days since no antibiotic was administered to make environment more suitable for good bacteria (got this one on Amazon).
  • NutraSea HP: take 1 softgel twice daily, with food
  • Prenatal SAP (NFH): take 1 capsule 3 times daily, with food
  • ProE Complex (AOR): 2 softgels daily during FET cycle until transfer, 1 softgel all other times, discontinue after 1st trimester
  • Flora SAP (NFH): insert 1 suppository daily, at bedtime. Continue until FET
  • Recovery SAP (NFH): 1 capsule daily, ongoing
  • Vitamin D drops (NFH): this one depended on my existing blood levels and my weight, so it will be different for everybody, but for me personally I needed 4000-5000 IU daily to get to a good vitamin D level after 3 months
  • Wild Yam complex (MH): take 2 tablets twice daily (the most expensive one, but it should help me uptake estrace)
  • L-Arginine: 2 grams three times daily from start of estrogen until pregnancy test (naturopath wasn't super convinced this one would do anything for me, but kept it on as I had used it before)

My first lining check is June 8th, so we shall see if all this expensive pee (as I like to call it) will amount to any changes.


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#20 Carter81

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Posted 03 June 2021 - 11:13 AM

Really hoping your diligence is rewarded this time Returnable! 

 

I also had an issue getting a thick enough lining...we eventually found that what worked for me is 

 

Estradiol Valerate (IM injection) - every 3 days

Estradot patches - 2 patches every 2 days

Vitamin E (1000 IU) - 1 daily

baby aspirin  - 1 daily

POM juice - about a cup every day

Red raspberry leaf tea - 1 cup twice a day

 

I take all of this for 18 days and that seems to work! Once my lining is thick enough I have to stop everything except the valerate and patches before I start my PIO injections.


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Jan 2015 - Oct 2016   IUI x 7 - BFN

Feb 2017   IVF - BFN

Jan 2018 - Mar 2018   IUI x 3 - BFN

Aug 2018   IVF - BFN

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July 2019   DE IVF unsuccessful (no embryos to transfer)

Mar 2020   DE IVF unsuccessful (transfer cancelled due to COVID-19 and no embryos to freeze)

Aug 2020   DE IVF (FET) - BFN

Nov 2020   DE IVF (FET) - BFN


#21 blue84

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Posted 03 June 2021 - 11:24 AM

I came back to update! We have a happy and healthy 15w old son now!

It was still a battle with my lining when we transferred. We tried to mimic my Feb 2020 protocol with estrogen patches, vaginal estrogen and my lining got to 6.4... then started dropping, 6.2, then 5.8. Added vaginal viagra which did nothing. My estrogen was also dropping (which was weird), so when my cycle was about to be cancelled I begged for injectable estrogen (it had to be compounded), I took 10 mg IM every 24 hours and went back 3 days later and it was 7.8 mm! My estrogen got to 8000 and we did a transfer and it stuck! I also did most of the supplements returnable did (under guidance of naturopathic doctor). Will post that separate.

Also there is a Facebook Group for Thin Endometrial Lining where a lot of different options are tried by people all around the world
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#22 blue84

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Posted 03 June 2021 - 11:26 AM


Vitamins/supplements I took (all NFH or genestra brand)

Vitamin E 1200 iu
L-arginine 6g
Prenatal sap tid
NAC 1500 mg
Asa 81 mg
Pentoxifylline 800 mg
Vitamin C 2000 mg
Vitamin D 2000 iu

RRL tea 2x
Pom juice organic 250 mL

Exercise 20-30 min moderate activity every day

#23 returnable

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Posted 04 June 2021 - 06:57 PM

Blue84, congratulations!