33 replies to this topic

Hi there,

Just wondering if anyone did anything different (or did nothing at all different!) and got a BFP. IVF cycle #1, I just basically ate fairly balanced, including dairy and wheat, reduced caffeine and no booze. Great eggs, great embryos, good numbers (10 mature), great lining, transferred 2 early blasts and a morula, no pregnancy, none to freeze.

Cycle #2, I thought, okay, let's really go all out -- we could only improve with changes, right?? Went to TCM, rec'd acupuncture, went on recommended detox, took herbs, took extra vitamins, reduced caffeine to nil plus no white sugar and more different whole grains, reduced dairy, reduced high-impact exercise... anyways, you get the picture... ended up, after all that, with 4 eggs and cycle was converted to IUI. Now, I am not sure what to do and the information is conflicting enough to make you go bonkers.... I know it's all individual but thought I ask anyway. Thanks for any info.

Hi,

I don't have any answers for you, but just wanted to say that I totally hear you. We had 4 failed attempts last year (3 FETs and 1 IVF) and each time I got stricter and stricter with myself and did what I could do. (I have yet to try acupuncture, but more diet wise). I turned 35 in April and now I'm that much more worried. I only drink decaf coffee (made without chemicals) 2 times a week, rarely have alcohol, very little sweets, reduce dairy and wheat (but they're my staple so it's hard), avoid soy (I don't eat meat so doesn't leave much), eat lots of veggies and fruits, etc. And when I do have the odd dessert, do I ever feel guilty. My husband actually gets angry at me for depriving myself.
But I do wonder if it even makes a difference.

Anyways, just wanted you to know that you're not alone. I wish you lots of luck and hope you get that BFP.

Thanks Trying. Your reply was comforting and I appreciate it. I'm kinda getting tired of trying to sort out what to do to improve my chances but I guess that's what so many of us go through. My sister said to just stop putting pressure on myself and husband and go out and get drunk for the month leading up to IVF. (She was kidding, sort of...but maybe she's right. Can all this pressure be good??) (Actually, don't tend to drink too much but a big fat fudge sundae is sounding pretty good.) She went through IVF herself - #2 was successful and then she got pregnant naturally just by fluke! I hope a BFP is in your near future as well.

[Hero08]

Hi Stillhoping,

Not that I'm a success story yet but I did get that ever elusive bfp...With me - this was it: I really think that the acupuncture for 18 months beforehand (and herbs) did the trick. It probably helped with egg quality and I know that the calmness for me was there. 2 years ago when my 3 iuis didn't work I was a basket case. Plus, I had a hysteroscopy right before ivf and they found 3 polyps. They had never seen them in my uterus before but I have a feeling they were there for a while. I've never been terribly strict with myself - just tried to be healthy. I drink red wine (even had a glass or 2 on stims) and I had a latte or 3 during that time as well. I think because my clinic is known to be aggressive with everything (with our age group anyway) - the fact that they transferred 5 embryos probably had something to do with it. I think your sister has a point but I never felt that I could ever leave it behind. The best I could do was focus on something else. If I couldn't be positive I just tried to be neutral. That being said, we had decided that we would start on adoption as soon as this cycle was a bust. I genuinely grieved not being fertile and was ok with it after that. I'd say that was about 1-2 months before the cycle. The other thing I had to let go of was my DH. I was on his case all the time for drinking, not taking his herbs or vitamins etc...I finally just relaxed about that. Anyway, sorry to hear that you don't think this past cycle was successful - I still highly recommend that you continue acupuncture and herbs - especially if you do decide on another ivf cycle. I realize how fortunate I am because I know that it doesn't always work on the first try and although I'm really scared I'm also joyful that it turned out the way it did - I did not expect this:)

Stillhoping - it is so hard to tell whether all of those alternative treatments, diet etc. make a difference. I think there is some data on acupuncture making a difference. Also some studies have shown that hight fat dairy products are a good thing. But for me personally, I got my BFPs (at ages 39 and 40) without doing anything special. I am generally not a relaxed person and had pretty high anxiety during both cycles, but it seemed to not make a difference. I have recently gotten some BFNs, and the only thing that I can think of that is a lot worse in terms of lifestyle is that my sugar intake is higher. Whether that has anything to do with it, who knows. I don't think there is a magic pill or treatment, but if it makes you feel more in control to contribute to the chance of success then by all means go for it!

Mag

Thanks Mag and Hero.

Hero, I was so disappointed that acupuncture did not seem to improve my "egg situation" but this was after only 3 months of trtmt. We hemmed and hawed about waiting 3months between IVFs because of my age but were told it likely wouldn't make much difference because my 1st IVF was a good one, response-wise. My belief in acupuncture has been a little shaken because of our disappointing results, although this is likely just coincidental. Did you always have the same practitioner? Just curious....at the clinic I went to, you went to a bunch of different practitioners. They were all such nice people and I believe they knew their stuff. The clinic has a great reputation. However, for what you gain in varieties of expertise among practitioners, I wonder if you lose anything because of the discontinuity between treatments. To be fair, though, each practitioner did review my chart before each session and each session was normally relaxing. We're out of cash, though, so no more acupuncture except right before ET. I know it's been proven to have positive results but besides being broke, I guess I'm a little chicken to try it again. I want to believe in it for myself, but can't seem to get there yet after this last cycle.

I am still mid depression this cycle and likely looking for a scapegoat for my disappointment. It is likely that acupuncture had nothing to do with my low egg results and it was just one of those things. The RE was surprised in the results this time around and I guess I'm looking for answers when really, there aren't any. I am glad to hear that lattes didn't do any harm, though... ... I love a good latte.... (decaf is fine)...

Thanks for responding to my post. I am so glad to hear that acupuncture worked for you and that you have had such a healthy first beta. After your tough year or two, you deserve a really happy ending/new beginning. I hope it is all smooth sailing from this point onwards.

Mag -- I too am just not a really calm person. Acupuncture helped during the sessions but the drive down there nearly drove me over the edge. Maybe all that driving stress counteracted the good that acupuncture did. You're right -- I think it helps me to feel I'm doing all I can. First IVF was right after Xmas holidays when I'd overindulged in shortbread and other sweet goodies...maybe I need to up my sugar!! I guess I'll continue to try to improve my eating habits and exercise a bit more. I guess if I could stop obsessing about it, that'd likely help. It's hard not to focus on it, though....thanks for your insight -- wishing you a healthy BFP in the near future.

[Rosa]

Hi,

I haven't had any success at all, except for my first IUI where I had a chemical pregnancy. After that I really believed that I would get pregnant shortly. It meant that the egg and sperm were getting together and that implantation had started, but hadn't continued on. I was under tremendous stress after that first IUI as my dad was then diagnosed with terminal cancer. I took him to all his appointments etc. and had so much to deal with on top of IF. My first IVF cycle occurred after my dad passed away and I was under much less stress. I took time off work and took it easy and I really thought that it would work. Of course it failed. My egg quality was bad, but I had 32 eggs and this was due to be over-stimulated. So my lousy egg quality had more to do with the IVF protocol than it did with what I did. I cut out all caffeine and alcohol. I ate a very healthy and well-balanced diet during this cycle as well.

For my next FET I took matters into my own hands and I underwent accupuncture. As much as people say it's relaxing, I found that not to be true. The clinic was right next door to my office, so getting there was easy and I did it over lunch hours. But I found it to be quite painful, but I was willing to do anything to help with the success of my cycle. I got another BFN.

My next IVF cycle was in Dec 2007 and I took a lot of time off work again. I relaxed and took it easy. The IVF protocol I followed was different and I had fewer follicles but the quality of the embryos was much better than the first cycle. Again I stayed away from caffeine and all alcohol and ate a very balanced diet.

I really don't know.....I wish there was a magic bullet. Nothing I have done seems to have worked......

[bal]

Hi,
I'm not sure if you'll like my answer, but this is my story. I am 38 yrs old, 6 mos pregnant from an FET. My 1st IVF was a BFP which resulted in an early m/c.

I am not the most healthy lady in this forum. I gained a total of 25 lbs over 3 yrs of IF treatment. I don't exercise, and I eat and drink whatever I want. I didn't change anything before my IVF.

Many years ago, when I once was also overweight, I realized that when I went on a strict diet, exercise regime, or made a major change in my habits, my cycle would change, it would get longer, from 28 to 35 days. So, after asking my RE if I needed to loose weight or do anything special (he said no), I decided to not change a thing. I kept on with life as normal (for me) and only stopped drinking alcohol before ER, and coffee after ET, and I never touch artificial sweeteners.

I tried to be as relaxed as possible at the time of ET, and did do bedrest after ET, being the 2nd time (FET) an extreme bedrest, since I spent almost the whole 2ww relaxing. And I do mean relaxing, staying at home, etc.

I really don't know what has any effect on a positive or negative outcome. I wish I could tell you, as I wanted other people on this forum to tell me before I got my BFP.

I hope you get your BFP soon. Do whatever makes you feel good, relaxed and confident. I know we get obsessed and our whole lives revolve around the IVF, but try to detach yourself a little bit before the ER and ET. Be positive, have faith and pray a lot!
I'm sending baby dust your way
I hope this helped...

Thank you for all the kind wishes and insight. I am overwhelmed by supportive people are on this site and tear up when reading your replies.

Rosa, it sounds like you have tried so hard and tried so many different approaches... good for you for keeping positive and trying different things ... I hope we both (all!) find that magic bullet that works for us. It sounds like that last protocol was a good one for you with good quality eggs, so you're on a good path. Wishing you a great big BFP next time around. Maybe one of those frosties is just all ready to get inside and start growing.

Bal, thanks for the input. I am thinking I should just follow my mum's advice and take a balanced approach like you seem to have done. My husband and I will likely take a (very) short break until September. Time is ticking and bank account is draining empty.... Maybe a little non-IVF R&R will help. You're right - it's important to aim for being as relaxed and confident as possible. My faith is a little rusty so that's something for me to work on. Thanks for the wishes. Congratulations on your pregnancy and all the best for happiness and health with your little one.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

Hi all... I also thought I should change my habits as I wasn't eating the greatest and I've had a stable weight for a couple of years but I'm heavier than I was 5 years ago. I've been reading this book called Fertility Foods by Jeremy Groll but I've had a hard time sticking to his advice on diet. He has some great tips (focus is on having equal carbs and protein. Apparently this has been successful for many women. ) We just went through IVF but our cycle was cancelled since I was slow to react to the drugs (our first cycle) and now we just finished IUI. I'm 41 so I'm really feeling the pressure and if this doesn't work, we're back to the doctor and trying to get through IVF cycle #1. I'm inclined to try something different with my diet and lifestyle if the IUI doesn't work. And actually, while I'm going through IUI I'm more cognizant of my diet and exercise habits so we'll just take it one day at a time and do the best we can.

Difficult to know what will work...

Hi All
I had two children at ages 39 and at 40 through IUI's. At that time I just never thought that it won't happen. I was just very naive at the time. I am a very anxious person. I am on the very thin side. At that time I was running about 60K a week. I don't drink, smoke or drink coffee. But I love diet coke!! Even the days after my IUI's I went running. However in trying to have a third I have several m/c and had severe damage to my ovaries due to too many cycles. So all in all I don't know what really works! My doctor in his practice has had more success with IUI in women over forty that with IVF. I know in my cycles, when I was really stressed I had a longer follicular cycle, ovulating on day 19 instead of day 12 to 15. However when I was at one of my most lowest point I got pg with my first child. I guess all you can do is keep trying and believing that one day your number will be up and it will work!! Best wishes to everyone!

Thanks for all the replies. You guys are incredible. I hope it works out for all of us.

[maybebaby]

Wow, sounds like there is no magic rule as to what we should do to increase our odds. On the one hand it's disappointing, on the other hand perhaps encouraging as we all feel a little bit guilty as to whether we're doing 'enough' and this thread pretty much spells out that for everyone it is different and just try not to worry about it too much.

Hi Stillhoping,

Not that I'm a success story yet but I did get that ever elusive bfp...With me - this was it: I really think that the acupuncture for 18 months beforehand (and herbs) did the trick. It probably helped with egg quality and I know that the calmness for me was there. 2 years ago when my 3 iuis didn't work I was a basket case. Plus, I had a hysteroscopy right before ivf and they found 3 polyps. They had never seen them in my uterus before but I have a feeling they were there for a while. I've never been terribly strict with myself - just tried to be healthy. I drink red wine (even had a glass or 2 on stims) and I had a latte or 3 during that time as well. I think because my clinic is known to be aggressive with everything (with our age group anyway) - the fact that they transferred 5 embryos probably had something to do with it. I think your sister has a point but I never felt that I could ever leave it behind. The best I could do was focus on something else. If I couldn't be positive I just tried to be neutral. That being said, we had decided that we would start on adoption as soon as this cycle was a bust. I genuinely grieved not being fertile and was ok with it after that. I'd say that was about 1-2 months before the cycle. The other thing I had to let go of was my DH. I was on his case all the time for drinking, not taking his herbs or vitamins etc...I finally just relaxed about that. Anyway, sorry to hear that you don't think this past cycle was successful - I still highly recommend that you continue acupuncture and herbs - especially if you do decide on another ivf cycle. I realize how fortunate I am because I know that it doesn't always work on the first try and although I'm really scared I'm also joyful that it turned out the way it did - I did not expect this:)

Hi,

I saw on your profile that you went to the Foothills clinic in Calgary. I am in Calgary also. What is your situation now? I am asking b/c we have been advised to try an egg donor program in either Seattle or Denver. Have you heard anything about these clinics? We are also looking into adoption-have you heard about any agencies in Calgary? Pls. advice

Winsett

[hopeful_flyer]

I like your approach Bal.

[maybebaby]

Just for the record, a couple that I know are both heavy drinkers, and not what I would call healthy eaters. They are a little bit older than us, and in the past six years managed to produce two healthy children -- a girl and a boy. Sure, they weren't faced with infertility challenges, but it just goes to show you that being fanatical about eating right and never having a drop of alcohol or caffeine isn't going to make or break it in the end. I feel sorry for the kids, their marriage isn't that happy and I'm convinced the mother has a severe drinking problem and is anorexic.

Anyway, I'm sure most of us would stand on one foot and turn around 3 times if we were told it would help, but go on -- have that piece of pie and don't feel guilty about it! My weakness is popcorn. One day, after I get used to the thought that I will be childless forever, I'll probably see a big study on the front page of the newspapers about how popcorn decreases your fertility to nil.

Just for the record, a couple that I know are both heavy drinkers, and not what I would call healthy eaters. They are a little bit older than us, and in the past six years managed to produce two healthy children -- a girl and a boy. Sure, they weren't faced with infertility challenges, but it just goes to show you that being fanatical about eating right and never having a drop of alcohol or caffeine isn't going to make or break it in the end. I feel sorry for the kids, their marriage isn't that happy and I'm convinced the mother has a severe drinking problem and is anorexic.

Anyway, I'm sure most of us would stand on one foot and turn around 3 times if we were told it would help, but go on -- have that piece of pie and don't feel guilty about it! My weakness is popcorn. One day, after I get used to the thought that I will be childless forever, I'll probably see a big study on the front page of the newspapers about how popcorn decreases your fertility to nil.

Yeah, it seems many a couple get pregnant with no attention whatsoever to diet or drink or what-have-you.You are totally right on! I will enjoy that pie or Today's Vice of Choice and not feel guilty, while of course still looking for that magic solution.... Enjoy your popcorn-munching!!

Hello everyone, I thought I would add my story here for you as well. I am 38, going on 39 this year. My first cycle everything was great. I didn't change too much either. My attitude was great, and I didn't change much about my eating habits at all. My cycle ended in early m/c as well. The first cycle I had 13 eggs--and had grade A eggs. I transfered 2 and still ended with a m/c. Now the 2nd IVF cycle, I changed so much and was very determined to not do anything wrong. They only got 6 eggs, only 3 fertilized, and none took. So, what did I do wrong? Not sure. My eggs were just crappy. SO I am thinking this is all the luck of the draw. Seems to me anyway. Some people get preggo with the worse sperm ever, and wonderful eggs, and yet those of us with great eggs and sperm, we get the bfn. So I am thinking it is the luck of draw. Maybe I am wrong of course. I feel that age has alot to do with it. Maybe not, but I am getting to the point to where I am getting too old to do this again. Not sure we will do another round, but will see.

I will have to post more often here. Kinda glad I read the posts here, and know that I am not the only one out there with this prob.

Take care,
Stacy

[maybebaby]

Hi and welcome,
If by too old you mean you are fed up and don't want to keep trying, I can relate. But if by too old you mean that you don't think that it will work ~ then keep reading, because you will see that women 40+ have been successful with IUI and IVF.
Sorry about your bad luck to date and hope you get what you are wishing for!

Hi there,

Just wondering if anyone did anything different (or did nothing at all different!) and got a BFP. IVF cycle #1, I just basically ate fairly balanced, including dairy and wheat, reduced caffeine and no booze. Great eggs, great embryos, good numbers (10 mature), great lining, transferred 2 early blasts and a morula, no pregnancy, none to freeze.

Cycle #2, I thought, okay, let's really go all out -- we could only improve with changes, right?? Went to TCM, rec'd acupuncture, went on recommended detox, took herbs, took extra vitamins, reduced caffeine to nil plus no white sugar and more different whole grains, reduced dairy, reduced high-impact exercise... anyways, you get the picture... ended up, after all that, with 4 eggs and cycle was converted to IUI. Now, I am not sure what to do and the information is conflicting enough to make you go bonkers.... I know it's all individual but thought I ask anyway. Thanks for any info.

hello- with IVF #2, I made sure that I was in great shape (Yoga 4-5 times a week, running) physically & mentally. I also took the prenatal vitamins before the blastocyst was transferred which I hadn't done before. I pretty much stopped all alcohol for a year too. I also did a round of acupuncture but stopped due to the price. Did this help? I really don't know. I also think the lab has a lot to do with the results. For all of my IUI's & IVF # 1, I always hoped that it would just happen. Each time that it didn't work, I tried to keep moving on.

Sticky baby dust to each of you.

Stacy -- sorry for your BFNs after all your efforts. You are definitely not alone. Sometimes it is all so disheartening ... that's why I like to hear the success stories for 35+'ers... gives me a bit of hope, and I think, okay, maybe it can happen for us. But I have many a day, these days, where I don't know whether or not to try again... I hope your next step is the best one for you, whatever that step may be.

Miche Ren ... I am thinking of trying yoga... although I hate to bare my horrible feet....still, all worth it for a baby...and maybe I'd relax a bit about it... congratulations on your little guy!

Thanks much for the words of wisdom. I just do not know what we are going to do. One moment I think we will do another cycle, but they I don't. RIght now, things are so tight with the money and I am not sure I can afford another cycle. I am the sole person for paying the IVF cycles as it is. My DH won't pay for any of it, so it is all on me. So right now, I just do not think it will happen for a long time. And I won't try after I am 40. I do not want to wait that long, I guess. Maybe that is being selfish, but I just do not want to do that. My DS will be 13 if wait that long, and I just do not think I can do that. Kind of a bad attitude about it, but I just don't think that is fair to me. Oh well. Maybe I will change my mind. If I want a baby bad enough, then I guess we will try after I am 40.

Stace

Stillhoping ... I'm a "believer" in acupuncture in general, but I have my doubts about whether it is right for everyone when it comes to follicle stimulation/egg quality.

My first cycle (no acupuncture, okay diet, lots of water) we had 4 good quality eggs, 2 of which fertilized and looked good for transfer. Ate pineapple after ET for a few days, and rested. Result: chemical pregnancy (1st beta positive, 2nd beta negative).

My second cycle I decided to try acupuncture in the stimulation phase, and generally did all the same things as cycle one, though probably drank less water and was probably on skim milk products instead of 2%. Did NOT eat pineapple after ET, did rest. Result: only 3 eggs retrieved, all of lousy quality - only 2 fertilized and only 1 average or less quality embryo made it to transfer. Yeah, not so much a fan of acupuncture this time around - be it a coincidence or not, I'll never know.

For cycle 3, (during the middle of which I turned 35) I had lost a little weight ahead of time, simply by eating really healthy (lots of fruits and veg, protein, 2% dairy products and cutting bread out). I was back drinking a 2 - 3 litres of water each day but did not do acupuncture during stimulation. My new clinic is a big believer in Acupuncture, but after hearing about my second cycle, they said that not everyone responds the same, and said they would do it for me on ER and ET day, for relaxation and implantation purposes, IF I wanted. Ate pineapple after ET for a few days, stayed warm and rested. Result: 4 excellent quality eggs, all of which were above average for our D3 transfer. Oh, and a BFP. :-)

What was different about cycle 3? I was older - 35 years, 6 days old on ER day. :-) I drank 2 - 3 L of water each day from stimulation through ET. I do not drink coffee or tea, and cut out all sodas, etc. I did acupuncture only on ER and ET day. My new clinic had me REALLY relaxed on both days - they offer a meditation/relaxation CD that you can listen to - it is specific to IVF and I loved it. Was SO incredibly relaxed after my ET. They didn't want my bladder bursting for ET, either, which was very different from cycles 1 and 2. They wanted it full enough so they could get in easy, but not so bad that I was wincing each time they put the external ultrasound on my tummy. They had me lie for only 10 min after ET, then empty my bladder, then return to my resting room for post-procedure acupuncture and the relaxation CD. What else .... I had all my meds on timers and wasn't so much as 5 min late for any dose. My meds were different for this cycle - different protocol selected at our new clinic - and I was also on Estrace, something I'd never been on before.

Oh, and we stayed with my parents during ER/ET week and during those 14 days celebrated 2 birthdays, 2 anniversaries and father's day, so we all ate a RIDICULOUS amount of cake. I'm sure all that sugar had a positive impact, too! :-)

Not sure if that helps you at all, but thought I'd chime in with my 2 cents. Best wishes to you!

Little Kaaz.. I'm there with you, except for the being under-40 part...alas, that birthday has "flown"... does that make sense??? You have to do what's right for you, agewise and how long you want to try IVF. Today was a blue day for me. TCM docs suggest waiting longer until body recovers from IVF; rest of the world says hurry up, you're an oldie and in fertility terms, not a goodie; clinic says pay for it all up front; Visa says you owe us around $12000; common sense says what the heck are you doing?

I wish there was some consistency in different opinions. It must be hard if DH is not as keen to do IVF... I may be in that boat very soon as well although DH has not said this outright.

Caila - thanks v. much for your detailed reply. Gee, I could live with parents for IVF in Victoria, too... of course, mother-daughter stress might be too much for all of us ! LOL! I like the idea of the CD - what is the name of it? I'm a big believer in some lying down after procedure but last time, it was kind of a run-quick-to-the-bathroom and see-ya-later sort of experience. Last IUI, I asked about lying there and they said they needed the room, but I could sit in a chair in waiting room (sigh). Things are busy, I guess. What protocol were you on ? And what is Estrace? My clinic is recommending microdose flare for me next time, which I am ok with.

I am certain the cake had a positive effect! I knew a little sugar wasn't that bad!! Next time, a nice big piece of cake for me!! Best wishes for a continued healthy and happy pregnancy and thanks for taking the time to answer.

Still - I was on the Estrogen Priming Protocol, because my new doc considered me a "poor responder" since I only have one (surgically beat up) ovary with which to work. At best we can manage 6 follicles, period. The estrogen priming protocol has you taking Estrace throughout, and is considered by some to be beneficial for poor responders. (Estrace is Estradiol, a naturally occurring female hormone -- basically used as estrogen replacement therapy.)

Not sure what the name of the CD is. I'll ask when I talk to them next.

Thanks for your best wishes. I'm counting down the days to our ultrasound next week. IVF seems like a never-ending waiting game. As soon as you finish one waiting period, there is another waiting for you! :-)

Best wishes to you.