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Not meant to be

Posted by Mommyof3allready , 16 January 2013 · 1892 views

So the lab finally called this morning at 11:30 am with the bad news..that none of our 5 eggs fertilized which I allready new from her convo yesturday. I asked why we paid for and signed the icsi consent was it not done? She said that they were under the understanding that if the swim team came out strong and they didn't need to do icsi then we didn't want them to do it. She said we didn't specifically say "no matter what..we want icsi done" she also said because we are not infertile and allready have a 15 mth old together..they didn't see any reasons for doing icsi. We have a 1500 dollar credit there..whoppy :(
So, here's the thing I think..if you put 5 eggs in with 50,000 sperm and get none that fertilize..then it's not meant to be. Everything happens for a reason! We can't go in dept to try this again..and we have spent all of our savings on this ivf.
On that note..I'm gunna hold my children close and be blessed in everyway and thankful for what I have:)
I'm going to spread..BABYDUST AND BABY LOVE on all of you trying to conceive and JOY to the ones all ready expecting...expect to absolutely fall in love when your miracle is born!
This forum has been great..,cheers to all of you!!!

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Um, you asked for and paid for it, why again didn't they do it?  I think you need to have a chat with your clinic manager.  Great, you have a credit there, but that doesn't begin to cover another cycle.  We paid and did ICSI too, no specific reason to, and we have a child together too.  We wanted all our bases covered, and for us it was easier to spend the ICSI fee than to come up with another IVF fee.  I'm mad at your clinic.

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Mommyof3allready
Jan 16 2013 04:58 PM
Thanx maralee.
They just said they didn't feel it was nessesary. I am assuming the risk in doing it. I said with only 5 eggs it should have been done I think. We arnt doing another cycle.
Im so sorry to hear none of your eggs fertilized. I think it is very poor on your clinics part to not discuss the icsi right after retrieval, especially when you had prepaid it. I wish you luck and maybe you will still get another miracle. Im thinking of you.
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frostedlemon
Jan 16 2013 05:25 PM

That would make me really angry, especially since this was your last attempt. You want the best chances with something that already has low chances. And I would be particularly upset that the communication was not clear and that if they're going to be making judgements about how much want/need it, they should be very clear about them. Or have every single person sign a paper about the degree to which they want ICSI to be performed. I would definitely let whoever's in charge know how unhappy you are about how things were handled.

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frostedlemon
Jan 16 2013 05:26 PM

Oh, and it would be one thing if they said the egg quality wasn't good enough for ICSI or another medical reason, but just to say "we didn't think you needed to have another baby that much" is unacceptable.  (I know that's not what they said, but it kind of is)

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Mommyof3allready
Jan 16 2013 05:42 PM
I am upset. We are gunna be talking to them. I'm very unclear about the icsi and why it wasn't done. We will be getting to the bottom of this. I agree when we are payin this money and they new we were only doing 1ivf cycle..I agree.. They should have given is are very best chance. I'm soo disappointed to not even be getting to the transfer. I was not expecting this at all!
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ladylazarus
Jan 16 2013 08:15 PM

I have to agree with everything that has been said so far. If you paid for and signed up for ICSI, then they should have done it and any commentary about how you already have a child seems like excuse making on their part. You have every right to be livid...they made a bad call and are trying to act like somehow you agreed to it!

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Nic_and_Hubby
Jan 16 2013 08:16 PM

My heart broke for you while I was reading this.  I am so sorry for everything that you and your family are going through.  I agree, I would be asking some serious questions, and not leaving until I got some difinitive answers.  I hope you and your family are able to heal from this disappointment.  ((Hugs))

I am sorry that you had to go through this. I think that was very crass for the lady to say that you already had a 15 month old together.....what the hell is that supposed to mean?? Her biases are not to be in the workplace and tell her that!! So, based on that comment, everyone should just be happy with their one child even though we are paying them for a service As much as possible should be done to fulfill their obligiation with biases aside!!

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Mommyof3allready
Jan 16 2013 11:40 PM
Update: I sent a email: This is what it said.
Hi Dr. Cheung

I am sending a message to you via email cause I'm soo angry/confused right now and it wouldn't be wise for me to contact or call the office at this time.
I think your office staff as well as yourself have been wonderful to us. We have had a over all great experience at your clinic up until the other day after our ER.
When I received the call yesterday from Mia in the lab department she had said that they did NOT do icsi and none of our 5 eggs have fertilized. She also (very hard to understand) said they would give it till this morning to check them again. I asked her about doing icsi (rescue at this point and she had said no they would not)
So it wasn't until 11:35 am this morning (unacceptable) time to wait around for a call all morning. I'm sure she knew by 8:40 am that none of the eggs were fertilized.
When finally speaking to her today to find iut the results and ask my wuestions as to why...and ger response was.........and her basically saying to me "you didn't tell us directly to do icsi no matter what" so we didn't do it as you all ready have a baby and don't have fertility issues.
My very large point here is "if we only have 5 eggs..a very small number to begin with.. Why wouldn't they no matter what give us our best odds and do the isci.
I have spoken and researched alot today about this. Every single person I have spoke to including genisis (Vancouver) and another victoria fertility centre all agree that isci should have been done no matter what do our odds of getting at least 1-3 embryos would have been higher.
I'm so confused.
Please take the time to make me understand what happened. Why that call was made. Why it wasn't clear to us. Why no one phoned after to ask specifically..after the sperm was tested and go over our options with us.  
Thank you in advance.
Also I'm hoping this progesterone will be refunded back to you now that we don't need it :(
Very sad and heart broken we didn't at least make it to egg transfer!
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Mommyof3allready
Jan 16 2013 11:49 PM
He called me personally after my email, he can't understand what happened. Also, said that there's a 1-5% chance of fertilization nor working for no known reason. We might be this percent.
He is standing behind his team for the decision not to use icsi. He still figured not using it we would get 1-2 embryos in the end.
They will reimburse us 1500 for the icsi and not charge it next time.. If we go ahead with another cycle. We can't afford to. His office stag will call tomorrow. He also said he will appy for a grant for some of the drugs to be covered of we go ahead again.
I'm sooo freaking frustrated' was not expecting to be stopped before transfer!!!
I'm so mad! We ate angry and feel ripped off.
At least if we made it transferr and miscarried or got a negative test it would have made a bit more sense.
Thanx ladies for letting me vent...:(
Especially after a glass of vino lol
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want2babies
Jan 17 2013 02:06 AM

I think the icsi consent form means to do it no matter what. If you are in the states, you could sue the clinic for millions. Your RE's response was not that great either. if he didn't know what happened, why did he think it was right to stand behind his team on their decision? the decision should have been made with RE and YOU together right after ER. Sometimes IVF doesn't make sense without icsi because of sperm issues. they should not only refund you for icse, but for ivf as well, because you've told them to do ivf + icsi, not just ivf. they are just covering for themselves and looking for excuses. is there some agency that you can complain to about this and force them to refund you for the full cycle?

his response is wildly unacceptable. You requested ICSI and paid for it. It should not be up to the embryologist or lab tech to make a different decision based on the quality of the sperm that came out of the sample.

 

im so sorry for this. Do you have a copy fo the contract you signed?

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Mommyof3allready
Jan 17 2013 11:27 AM
Yes I have all the forms including the signed icsi. But the doc is saying they didn't think it was necessary to do it. He said it can damage a egg cause you have to strip some cells off. He explained that.. The first two sperm samples he recommend icsi but at time of ER when they get the sperm they will check it. If motility Is good they wouldn't do icsi. Hubby's was good (supposedly) this time so they didn't do it. He also said and considering we have made a baby allready he figured it would have worked without icsi.
So.,at this point I sit here and think is that right? There's a lot of clinics I've researched in states ect that only do icsi so there stats are higher.
I'm just so mad..we didn't even make it to ET.!
His office is calling today with how much it will cost for another cycle but we arnt doing another one. At this point can't afford it:(

I am so sorry :(. I would be sooooo upset if this happend to me. They are profetionals and should know better not to play with words. If you paying in advance was no indication that you gave them the right to make the BEST decision then what would be!!! I am so very sorry, this should not have happend and your office needs to take the responsibility for the mistake they made. I can not believe the lab told you since you already had kids they did not find the need to do ICSI. OHHHH my god that makes me soooo mad. Firtility clinics think we have a money three in our back yard and that is the way for them to make money. I am so sorry

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Mommyof3allready
Jan 17 2013 11:40 AM
I also don't understand why they wouldn't do three icsi and leave two with the members on there own. Then they could have something to go on.

when you pay for ICSI it does not matter if they do on or ten, they will charge you the total amount. Best practice is to do it on all since you have already paid for it and with the number of eggs you had it would have been a better choice to do ICSI on all....

This is what I think, they must have been busy that day and did not have alot of time so instead of doing their job and putting in the time, they left it to luck.

I am so sorry

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LillySmile123
Jan 17 2013 09:54 PM

OMG!! If you pay for ICSI then you are "requesting" to do ICSI no matter what. Why did you have to pay upfront when they thought maybe ICSI maybe not?? It's not right they didn't do it. With only 5 eggs, it should have been done even if the sperm were strong. In my opinion, ICSI wold have given you the chance for at least 1-2 embryos. When we had 5 eggs, it was understood without question that ICSI would be done (whether they were good or poor quality eggs and no matter if the sperm were good swimmers or not). We couldn't take the chance of nothing fertilized. For us, after ICSI, we had 3 embryos make it to 3-day stage. We strongly believe if there was no ICSI we would have had none.

 

You should receive a REFUND for the ICSI not being done. AND you should get a refund for the progesterone too. What good will having a clinic credit do for you if this was your last effort?? So the clinic gets to keep all that money while you get nothing.

 

You can try to find a Complaints Commissioner or Ombudsman in the BC Health Dept. You can write to them and explain your case - perhaps this will start an investigation into your case for mishandling or at least poor service by the clinic. Of it could make your doctor decide to give to a refund rather than him getting a complaint lodged against him.

 

This makes me so upset & frustrated! I can sympathize with your anger at your clinic & doctor... I have been experiencing issues with my doctor/clinic but I have not been able to talk about because of my anger and feeling I was the only one feeling ripped off - but now I think I will share them in my own blog soon...

Just want to point out that although this RE is experienced, this is a very new clinic.  Is it possible that someone in the lab didn't know what they were doing?  Whose call was it not to ICSI?  Keep asking questions.

 

I'm so sorry to hear that you had such a disappointing experience.  I really hope that they refund you fully for ICSI, ET and unused medication, and that they give you a decent credit towards another cycle if you choose to go ahead with it again.  Keep us posted as I'm sure there are many people who are researching clinics right now and wondering who will treat them the best.

 

There is such a disparity in quality and protocols between clinics.  It's unfortunate that there aren't province-wide or federal standards in place.

 

I hope you don't interpret (possible) human error as fate, and that if it's truly what you want, that you find a way to try again.

I agree with what everyone has said. I would be so sad and upset as well. I would also consider another clinic.. I've heard great things about Genesis.

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