30 replies to this topic

[TryingForOur2ndChild]

Hello ladies....do any of you have any information, studies, etc you have collected or you RE or clinic has given you in regards to not needing progesterone during a natural cycle FET? Or at minimum that progesterone for say 5 days isn't required before a 5-day embryo transfer as long as hormones and such or all normal? Reason I ask this is because I'm doing another natural FET but doing progesterone before/after transfer mainly because that's just what is done in any FET not because I need it....and due to the day my clinic opens from Christmas holidays I will have probably already ovulated 1-2 days before they open and the clinic always wants to ensure the LH surge has occurred. Any assistance would be appreciated as my RE is very open to letting patients be part of their treatment. Thanks!!

[Murried]

Hi Tryingforour2ndchild - I did an unmedicated FET without the progesterone supplements, given it was unsuccessful I'm not sure that progesterone had anything to do with it.  From what I understand the outcome is the same for a natural FET or medicated. I think if you did a mock cycle to make sure all of your hormones are balanced and your RE suggested to do a unmedicated, I would go ahead. If in the past you got a pos hcg but then miscarried due to low progesterone, then it wouldn't hurt to take it. 

I put most of my research into unmedicated with acupuncture and even then, most studies were only pre and post transfer acu session.

Sticky thoughts to you.

[ENF]

I believe amp77 just did a successful unmedicated FET. Perhaps you can reach out to her?

 

Best of luck to you!

[amp77]

I believe amp77 just did a successful unmedicated FET. Perhaps you can reach out to her?

 

Best of luck to you!

Yes I did!  I did unmedicated with no progesterone support and I am 17w pregnant.  My progesterone was 190 at 12 dp 5dt.  For my fresh cycle a couple years ago, at my beta, my progesterone was 90 with progesterone support.  

 

I did have a mock cycle to verify my hormones and everything were in check.  My understanding is that, with a natural FET, if you are regular and hormones are ok, your body should be creating progesterone on its own.  In a medicated cycle, you are tricking your body and it doesn't react as it would, naturally.

 

Good luck to you!

[TryingForOur2ndChild]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I guess I will just have to wait and see what my RE decides tomorrow. I believe I had my LH surge yesterday but to top it off I came down with a nasty flu bug on Monday so I'm not sure if it will be suggested to wait just because of that alone. I've done a medicated FET with estrogen and progesterone before and it was a BFN and my system doesn't do well with the estrogen at all.....had horrible withdraws, cysts, etc and that's when I insisted I do an unmedicated FET seeing as my cycles are super regular and normal. My only BFP which resulted in my daughter was with an unmedicated (no estrogen but progesterone was added) cycle. My RE has never told me that I have a progesterone issue but I think it's added just because that's what they do with everyone if that makes sense seeing as I chart my cycles and I have a decent length luteal phase of 12 days....but I don't mind the extra support if it might help.
Question: did any of you take antibiotics just before and on transfer day as well as diazepam (aka Valium) at transfer to relax your uterus muscles? I found my first (unsuccessful) FET I cramped as soon as they did the transfer and it didn't go away for many days but with my second (successful) FET I asked for Valium after doing research and had zero issues. I do find that I'm extremely hypersensitive and very in tuned to what is going on with my body so I don't know if that is why the Valium helps. Just wanted to know if anyone else has had a similar situation. Thanks again.

[amp77]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I guess I will just have to wait and see what my RE decides tomorrow. I believe I had my LH surge yesterday but to top it off I came down with a nasty flu bug on Monday so I'm not sure if it will be suggested to wait just because of that alone. I've done a medicated FET with estrogen and progesterone before and it was a BFN and my system doesn't do well with the estrogen at all.....had horrible withdraws, cysts, etc and that's when I insisted I do an unmedicated FET seeing as my cycles are super regular and normal. My only BFP which resulted in my daughter was with an unmedicated (no estrogen but progesterone was added) cycle. My RE has never told me that I have a progesterone issue but I think it's added just because that's what they do with everyone if that makes sense seeing as I chart my cycles and I have a decent length luteal phase of 12 days....but I don't mind the extra support if it might help.
Question: did any of you take antibiotics just before and on transfer day as well as diazepam (aka Valium) at transfer to relax your uterus muscles? I found my first (unsuccessful) FET I cramped as soon as they did the transfer and it didn't go away for many days but with my second (successful) FET I asked for Valium after doing research and had zero issues. I do find that I'm extremely hypersensitive and very in tuned to what is going on with my body so I don't know if that is why the Valium helps. Just wanted to know if anyone else has had a similar situation. Thanks again.

That sucks about the flu

I did not have valium or antibiotics for my FET.

With a regular cycle, hopefully the RE recommends a mock cycle and then, if all is well, your FET

 

Good luck to you!!!

[TryingForOur2ndChild]

Amp77 - did your RE say why they prefer to do a mock cycle? I believe I had one done for my first ivf round but my RE said I didn't need one this time around and would proceed with my FET.

[amp77]

Amp77 - did your RE say why they prefer to do a mock cycle? I believe I had one done for my first ivf round but my RE said I didn't need one this time around and would proceed with my FET.

They make sure lining and ovaries look ok and that your hormones are normal and to know about what day your LH surge is to time the transfer and make sure they can fit you in the schedule for the month of the transfer.

[Murried]

I didn't take anything before, but I have heard of ppl taking ativan to help them relax.

If going the unmedicated route you will definitely want to check your lining on CD14 and P4 level on CD21 - that is basically all a mock cycle is, and if they're in range, then you can go ahead. 

 

I have been looking into the difference between medicated and not, given I just had a failed FET cycle so I want to make sure I do whats best next time around, and basically if you have a regular period and ovulate on your own, then there would be no reason to do a medicated cycle, other than for the convenience and scheduling the transfer.

Adding progesterone to an unmedicated isn't necessary, but I know some Dr. prescribe it, but if the pregnancy takes your body will produce it on its own. 

 

I hope tomorrows appointment goes well. Keep us posted. 

[TryingForOur2ndChild]

Thanks ladies....

Amp77 - luckily because I use an app to monitor my own cycle and seeing as it's so regular the monitoring with an unmedicated is minimal and I found it so much nicer the last time I had it seeing as I have experience with both medicated and almost unmedicated....I never found the progesterone to be a big issue for menit was always the estrogen that was awful!

Murried - it's good that you are looking into both medicated and non medicated. If your RE will do an unmedicated, your hormones at are levels they are happy with and you have regular cycles you will find it feels the least invasive as it can get. In fact my unmedicated FET I actually said to my DH that it felt like nothing happened though it resulted in our daughter. I do feel better having the progesterone added mainly because after years of charting my cycles my luteal phase (endnof cycle which requires progesterone to sustain a pregnancy) is usually only 12 days which is normal but on the low end....like if I was only 11 days it would be low for sustaining a pregnancy so I would feel better havjngnslme progesterone suppositories for the added chance for a BFP even if it causes some nausea.
Has your RE given you any direction as to if they want to try another unmedicated or medicated FET the next time or are they leaving it up to you?

[Murried]

Trying - The unmedicated cycle for me was good, the clinic is relatively close to my work, so going in for 5 minute blood tests wasn't a big deal. I am currently in limbo as to what our next steps will be. Our follow up appointment isn't until February, at that time we'll discuss when we can do it again, and what the protocol will be. My guess, given what I've read would be to do another natural cycle FET. If anything were slightly different, it may be adding progesterone suppositories,  but I'm not sure, my cycles are regular and all my hormones have been within range. 

[TryingForOur2ndChild]

So my RE said this month was a no go for a fet as all his patients whether they do an unmedicated or not go on the progesterone and for the full amount of time necessary before the transfer. He just doesn't risk it. I was so deflated for the first couple of days after hearing this news that sometimes it's hard not to go into isolation mode....I think that's mainly because my DH and I have kept our fertility treatment a secret so we are doing this below the radar with everyone. I know it's only 4 weeks until hopefully we can proceed but I don't know about all of you but the getting mentally prepared only for it to be deflated and then get prepared again can take it's toll sometimes.

[2Brides]

What a bummer that your doctor won't let you have input on your protocol! I'm so sorry your cycle was cancelled. My wife did an unmedicated FET and resulted in our healthy daughter. She did take an Hcg shot to trigger ovulation, but no other medication before or after the transfer. When she was 4-5 weeks pregnant, her progesterone bloodwork came back a little low so they added crinone, the vaginal suppository to boost it up and everything was fine. She only took that for about a month. I am currently hoping for an unmedicated FET this month and have my first appt for bloodwork and ultrasound tomorrow morning, on cycle day 10. I don't plan to take any medicine aside from the hcg shot.

[TryingForOur2ndChild]

2Brides - how did your BW and u/s go today?

 

I agree that it can be frustrating when our RE's don't give us certain choices, though I have to say overall my clinic is very good and he allows me to have more input than what I know some other clinics allow. For example I know most do a medicated FET and my first one was such which resulted in a BFN, cramps as soon as I had the FET and a uterine infection... consequently for the FET that I was successful in conceiving our daughter I told him I wanted an non-medicated cycle, antibiotics before/during FET as well as valium before FET as I read it decreases the chance of uterine contractions. He didn't feel it was necessary to do the two meds but allowed me anyways. Well this time around I told him I wanted to do the exact same thing that worked last time even if it is mentally something I can say why change a protocol that worked which he completely supported me on even though he doesn't typically do this protocol. So in general I can't complain.... I just keep saying to myself that things happen for a reason. Plus if I end up having a BFN the idea of decreasing the "what if's" questioning that happens all too easily I guess being healthier will decrease that questioning seeing as I was recovering days earlier from the flu. Now to just focus on nothing canceling this upcoming FET.

[2Brides]

Hi Tryingforoursecondchild! Well after that explanation it does seem like your doctor is flexible and willing to listen to your input, he just feels strongly about this progesterone part in particular. Also, if you had just had the flu, your body was probably in survival mode and not a very happy place to implant a little embryo, so maybe it all worked out for the best. My appt Thursday was great, right on track. I am back in again today for another ultrasound and another estradiol and progesterone bloodwork check. If all goes well, I will take my hcg trigger shot today and have my transfer scheduled for Friday the 20th. The only silver lining and bright spot to that dreadful Presidential Inauguration Day. 😬

[2Brides]

My u/S and bloodwork went well but apparently I'm ovulating later than expected (according to my calendar, but right on schedule with my monthly tracker) so my only fear is that if I can't hold out on ovulation until Tuesday, I will need my transfer next weekend and my clinic doesn't do transfers on the weekend. So the month would be a wash and we would have to try again next month... how is your cycle going?

[amp77]

My u/S and bloodwork went well but apparently I'm ovulating later than expected (according to my calendar, but right on schedule with my monthly tracker) so my only fear is that if I can't hold out on ovulation until Tuesday, I will need my transfer next weekend and my clinic doesn't do transfers on the weekend. So the month would be a wash and we would have to try again next month... how is your cycle going?

That's too bad.  That makes it hard for a lot of people.  2 of my 3 transfers were on a weekend.  I hope that things work out and you can transfer Friday!!!

[TryingForOur2ndChild]

My u/S and bloodwork went well but apparently I'm ovulating later than expected (according to my calendar, but right on schedule with my monthly tracker) so my only fear is that if I can't hold out on ovulation until Tuesday, I will need my transfer next weekend and my clinic doesn't do transfers on the weekend. So the month would be a wash and we would have to try again next month... how is your cycle going?

2Brides - I'm sorry to hear about this new stressor that has come up. Hopefully all goes as planned and you can do your transfer before the weekend comes. It's so tough to get mentally prepared and then try not to stress when there is a chance the cycle won't work out. When do you go back for BW and u/s?

[TryingForOur2ndChild]

2Brides - forgot to answer your question sorry....my cycle is going okay. Waiting for AF to show up anyday now. If everything goes as normal it should start Mon or Tues which would probably mean a FET the first full week of Feb....IF all goes well.

[2Brides]

Thanks ladies! Apparently I ovulate super slow, so now we have passed the weekend and we are looking at a transfer the following week. I'm in the waiting room for my 5th monitoring appt this ovulation! Ha. I went in Thur, Fri, Sat, Mon, and now here I am on Wednesday. Hopefully I am ready to trigger tonight. My follicle just grows really slowly, they want it at 18mm and I was at 16 on Mon. But I was at 14 last Thursday!! Ha ha! Who knows if I will be just at 17. That would be what the math of my previous U/S revealed. My IVF coordinator said if I was at 17.5 they would likely trigger me. I'm doubtful I will be there, but hoping so, because all these appointments are getting very challenging with work. We will shift around work schedules to do whatever we need to do, but it starts getting tricky. 😬

[2Brides]

I ovulated. 😬 I'm not sure what this means until they get my bloodwork back.

[TryingForOur2ndChild]

2Brides - I bet that the appts would be getting quite challenging. Plus if you are keeping your IVF journey on the low it makes it extra hard to explain appts, as that is what we are doing.... telling no one just to minimize stress. I too ovulate a lot later than what the typical CD15 chart that everyone always seems to go with. Seeing as I chart my cycles and also track my cervix and cervical fluids I can always tell right down to the day when an OPK will be positive for me and I ovulate normally on a CD18/19.

Well hopefully you find out quickly how they want you to proceed. If they could tell from your u/s and then confirm with your BW that you have ovulated and surged hopefully they will proceed with your fet. Fingers crossed for you! Keep us posted!

[2Brides]

Yes!!! That's exactly it, trying not to tell anyone at work and such, but all these appointments make it hard! And your thinking is the exact same thinking so had that since we know I ovulated yesterday morning and my bloodwork confirmed that, we would continue on and I would transfer early next week. But my nurse left me a patient message center voicemail yesterday that said they cancelled my cycle! I was so frustrated so they said the doctor would call today so we could talk about it but now he isn't going to call until tomorrow and the wait is so stressful. I want to proceed, but since their protocol includes hcg shot, he doesn't want to? I'm hoping he lets us go forward after we talk. Fingers crossed.

[TryingForOur2ndChild]

2Brides - have you heard anything? Fingers crossed they let you proceed. The waiting game is SO stressful.. it's like hurry up... and just wait.

 

AFM - I went in today for u/s and b/w as I'm on CD3. RE initially mentioned to do a medicated cycle which I quickly said no to and reminded him of how brutal my medicated FET was and how great my non-medicated (or at least no estrace) was so we are proceeding as planned. I go back in on CD11 for another check but I already know I will not be at all close to my LH surge seeing as I know I don't ovulate early, but whatever... I will follow protocol. I also started acupuncture treatment as it really helped not only with my lining but helped keep my stress levels down.

[2Brides]

Hey! I actually JUST got off the phone with them. After cancelling my cycle for no apparent reason, I finally got them to have the doctor call me. And we are on for a transfer Monday mid morning! I'm excited but worked up emotionally. My doctor said the only reason he canceled my cycle is because he didn't get blood work drawn just before I ovulated and he likes to see that. Even though I had blood work drawn the day before and a couple hours after ovulation. But everything looks great, he just likes to see the blood work before ovulation to schedule a transfer. But I begged him to let us go forward with the transfer anyway, and he got mad at me but said OK. He seriously got mad though, and he put me on hold, but I cried when the IVF nurse got back on the line.