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Effortless IVF after one livebirth and 2mcs


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#1 MommaM

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 05:04 PM

Hi there and thank you in advance for your responses. I'm 32.5 and have one child who I had at 30.5 without complications. This child was conceived during my first cycle off of ortho tricyclen for mild hormonal acne and first cycle post copper IUD removal. We have now been trying to conceive our 2nd child for 13 months. I breastfed during the first 2 months of ttc. We got pregnant in April of this year (5th month ttc). This ended in a 6.5 week missed miscarriage (no fetal development). We got pregnant again in August this year and had another mmc but at 8.5 weeks (again no fetal development). Both miscarriages were documented medically. My OB would like us to keep trying on our own before referring us to reproductive endocrinology (he's following protocol by not referring us until we've had three mcs). I went to a walk in clinic and got a referral to a fertility clinic in July. Lied and said we'd been trying for a year. They tested my TSH, FSH, day 3 estradiol and testosterone and hubby's testosterone I believe and all those tests were normal. I didn't do AMH or antral follicle count, HSG, saline sono, progesterone as we got pregnant in Aug before starting what was recommended to us (FSH-IUI for 3-4 cycles). We recently came across Effortless IVF (Invo cell technology. Thought it might be a good option for us since if we have another mc, at least it was relatively cheap and we can afford the $6500 for a failed cycle esp. if we get some frozen embryos out of it for later. What do you RE people think about this plan? They do all the RPL imaging and semen analysis for us and have offered to give me RPL protocol meds (probably just progesterone and maybe baby aspirin- not too sure yet- probably not steroids though I would think) They cannot, however, do blood chromosomes, embryo chromosomes, blood clotting and immunologic causes testing. Could I do any of that privately? And if not, would I be better off transferring one or two embryos that I may miscarry? I will address these questions with our IVF doc but wanted to ask for other opinions as well. Thank you.

#2 MommaM

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 05:07 PM

I have not had LH tested either.

#3 mouse

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 05:50 PM

Hi MommaM, I'm really sorry you're facing this. Keep in mind that our RE is a volunteer on the site and responds as time permits. I also doubt whether he'd be able to speak to the specific you've ask without reviewing your medical files to assess the full picture. I do hope your doctor is able to help you identify a successful path to building your family.

Fingers crossed for you!
The plural of anecdote is not data.

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#4 nervus optimist

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 05:52 PM

Hi there and thank you in advance for your responses. I'm 32.5 and have one child who I had at 30.5 without complications. This child was conceived during my first cycle off of ortho tricyclen for mild hormonal acne and first cycle post copper IUD removal. We have now been trying to conceive our 2nd child for 13 months. I breastfed during the first 2 months of ttc. We got pregnant in April of this year (5th month ttc). This ended in a 6.5 week missed miscarriage (no fetal development). We got pregnant again in August this year and had another mmc but at 8.5 weeks (again no fetal development). Both miscarriages were documented medically. My OB would like us to keep trying on our own before referring us to reproductive endocrinology (he's following protocol by not referring us until we've had three mcs). I went to a walk in clinic and got a referral to a fertility clinic in July. Lied and said we'd been trying for a year. They tested my TSH, FSH, day 3 estradiol and testosterone and hubby's testosterone I believe and all those tests were normal. I didn't do AMH or antral follicle count, HSG, saline sono, progesterone as we got pregnant in Aug before starting what was recommended to us (FSH-IUI for 3-4 cycles). We recently came across Effortless IVF (Invo cell technology. Thought it might be a good option for us since if we have another mc, at least it was relatively cheap and we can afford the $6500 for a failed cycle esp. if we get some frozen embryos out of it for later. What do you RE people think about this plan? They do all the RPL imaging and semen analysis for us and have offered to give me RPL protocol meds (probably just progesterone and maybe baby aspirin- not too sure yet- probably not steroids though I would think) They cannot, however, do blood chromosomes, embryo chromosomes, blood clotting and immunologic causes testing. Could I do any of that privately? And if not, would I be better off transferring one or two embryos that I may miscarry? I will address these questions with our IVF doc but wanted to ask for other opinions as well. Thank you.

 

 

Welcome momma. I'm so sorry to hear that you are struggling, and that you've lost 2 little ones along the way.

 

With all due respect, the processes for being referred to a fertility centre, and to IVF treatment in particular, are all there for a reason. From what I understand, the fact that you have conceived twice with only a few months of trying, likely disqualifies you entirely as a candidate for IVF, at least at this stage of the game, as you can get PG on your own within a reasonable amount of time. The reason that standard protocol is that people are not referred until they have had 3 losses is that pregnancy loss, sadly, is normal. 1 in 4 known pregnancies ends in pregnancy loss, almost always in the earliest weeks. After 3 losses they do tests to help determine why those losses may be happening. If they do find something (often they don't) then they can often treat that specific cause for PG loss. Those treatments very often are not connected to IVF, but other interventions. 

 

If after many months of trying with no pregnancy (usually more than 12 if you are under 35), someone is not PG, and the tests come back normal, as they have for you, then most doctors would start with a much more conservative treatment, such as clomid, or IUI, or medicated IUI. If those fail after repeated attempts then IVF may be considered. They choose this path because it is the least intrusive ideology. That is to say, try something minimally intrusive, and if it works, great, if not, up the ante. IVF is extremely taxing on the body, the drugs are intense, the fees are astronomical. Clomid, one of the most common first options that is tried is minimally priced and has a mild impact on egg development so it causes much less egg growth than the IVF stimulation drugs, and as a result has almost no risk of ovarian hyper stimulation (which is a medical emergency that is a not so uncommon side effect of IVF drugs). 

 

To be honest, I'm pretty shocked that effortless ivf is even considering taking you on as an IVF patient given what you have shared. I'm not a doctor, but have been at this for 10 years, and have met hundreds of women through this site and have never seen anyone start IVF with a story like yours without first trying so many other things.

 

Also, I would personally be super reluctant to consider the process that effortless IVF discusses on their website. They argue that they save people money by not doing the comprehensive frequent monitoring and drug adjustments typically done during IVF. But those are done for a reason. They monitor to help prevent the development of ovarian hyperstiumation, while maximizing the number of eggs that are produced in a cycle, which actually saves money. If I was left on the same dosage as I was on the first few days I would have produced no eggs at all as I'm a low responder, and my dosage needed to be increased at every visit to get my eggs to do anything. Other women respond too well and left unmonitored for 10 days without lowering dosage would have sent them to the hospital with overstimulation. I would be very curious to see the research behind what they are doing, but in my personal experience, and in the experiences of many of the women that I have met, it doesn't sound encouraging.

 

As a side note, many province now have legislation indicating that for women under 35 only one embryo be transferred unless there is a specific reason otherwise. Medically it is now considered best practice.

 

I'm sorry this isn't the feedback you were looking for. Hopefully one of the site's volunteer REs can respond to you when their holiday schedule permits, and hopefully your own medical team will be able to help you evaluate all of the options available and determine what is best for you. 

 

Wishing you all the best as you sort through this journey. 

:flowers:


  • kristeen033 likes this

I am 37, DH - 38
Genetic - IVF&PGD to prevent Genetic Disorder
IVF #1 - Nov/08 - MC @ 6 weeks, no embryos frozen
IVF #2 - Aug/09 - bfn
IUI #1 - Feb/10 - ectopic
PRIDE - Apr/10
Homestudy - July/10
Given the gift of donor embryos - Jan/12
Donor FET Jun/12 - 9 weeks - no heartbeat... MC
Donor FET Oct/12 - we're PG biggrin.png

===> Beautiful baby boy born 2013 babyboy.gif

Donor FET Oct/16 - chemical

April 2017 - surprise PG


#5 MommaM

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 06:41 PM

I totally get what you are saying, nervus and take no offense. I pay $275 only if I turn out not to be a good candidate and have the opportunity to proceed with the imaging/bloodwork that hasn't yet been done (other than blood chromosomes, blood clotting and immunology). This isn't an option for me through my OB yet. I feel like this journey can get long and complicated and am just exercising my options as early as possible, as I seem to get pregnant easily but miscarry easily as well (I'm aware that my mcs are probably just bad luck at this point but no one knows that for sure). I like their pregnancy success rates compared to traditional IVF but have to quiz them properly on how they can do so little cycle monitoring and still be successful. I also like the fact that if I don't have cycle complications and happen to get some spare frozen embryos, we can use them as I age if I have trouble with the getting pregnant on my own part later on (say after 35). I know I will probably just get to transfer one embryo, as this is recommended under 35, but I plan to ask if we can transfer 2 if we get 2 to transfer because in all honesty if it increases the success rate for us then I don't see it as an issue (twins are often uncomplicated pregnancies). We will see. Thanks for your reply.

#6 amp77

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 09:30 PM

I agree about there being general guidelines for a reason.  If you have an underlying reason for miscarriage, then IVF wouldn't make a difference vs. trying naturally.  The process can also take a lot of time and puts your body through a lot of stress.

 

As for many twin pregnancies often being uncomplicated, often they are complicated. This could mean early bed rest which could mean a lot of missing income after paying a lot for procedures and having to buy two of everything to take care of twins.  It often means early births which comes with its own complications.  In my family, I have cousins (twins) who were born very early and were in the hospital for a long time and one was there months and then on oxygen tank for months longer once he was finally home because his lungs were not developed.  I had other cousins also born very early and one died shortly after birth.  Years later, same mom pregnant with twins again, also born early, and one also died shortly after birth and other has cerebral palsy.  Given that you have a child and have gotten pregnant fairly easily, I wouldn't take the chance with two embryos. Even with two, and embryo can split and you can end up with triplets or quads. Rare but it happens.

I am very sorry for your losses, and sorry that you find yourself here and searching for answers.  I know that the process seems slow, but I would keep working with your doctor and get all the the appropriate tests and wish you all the best on your journey!


  • Zoe13 and kristeen033 like this

Age 39, DH 43 in Oct.

TTC on and off since 2007 before our second IVF, in 2014, brought us our beautiful son.

 

FET #1 -  Sept 2016

Day 1 - Sept. 9

Monitoring - Sept. 18-22

Lining Check - Sept. 22 (11.3 mm)

Transferred 5B-BB Sept. 25 - BFP!!!  HCG 890 @ 12dp5dt and Progesterone 95.
Midwife appointment Sept. 19 and first ultrasound Nov. 4
3 Frosties left

 

<a href="https://lilypie.com/"><img src="https://lbdf.lilypie.com/9GKrm4.png" width="400" height="80" border="0" alt="Lilypie Pregnancy tickers" /></a>

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Seems like forever ago...

 

Age 37, DH 40.

TTC on and off since 2007

Unexplained Infertility

 

IVF #1 - April 2014 - BFN - no frosties

 

IVF #2 - July 2014 - BFP - 5B-AB and 4 frosties (5B-BB, 2x4B-BB and 3B-BB)

Apr. 13, 2015 - Daniel Erik was born at 5:05 am, weight 8 lbs, 13 oz, and 22" long.  He is perfect in every way.

 

 


#7 MommaM

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 10:50 PM

Thank you amp77. I'm well aware that trying naturally and IVF have the same miscarriage risk for me at this point and I can afford that risk as well as the equipment for twins and time off. I'm not worried about the logistics. Not even too worried about it being hard on my body, as thousands of other people do it every year. It exists for a reason and yes I don't quite fit the bill yet, but maybe I do. I'm speaking with the IVF doctor in early Jan. Some so-called infertile couples don't fit the getting pregnant naturally bill and they do get pregnant naturally somehow. I don't want to spend another 5 months ttc only to have a mc again. If an IVF miscarriage could happen 4 or 5 months from now rather than 8 and I could get on with full RE testing earlier (there is no working with anyone on this right now as they need me to miscarry again) then the cheap IVF was worth it to me. I have a feeling IVF or RE may find nothing or something treatable in my case anyway, given I had a child naturally. In any case, IVF gives me the chance for a pregnancy more quickly, some diagnostic testing and potentially treatment sooner and embryo freezing- quite a few benefits in my mind and for a cost we are lucky enough to afford. As for your family's twins, I'm sorry about their health challenges and of course don't wish to assume risks like that or to burden my children with health problems from the get-go. I need to discuss my personal health history/options/risks associated with twin gestation further with the IVF doctor and not rely on anecdotes though- even the anecdote that my grandmother had healthy 5 lb twins in the early 1950s at age 34. That history and your family's hx are not representative of the whole picture. Have a good night and thanks for your caution.

#8 Seem14

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 02:06 AM

Hi MommaM, I would be curious to know if you would be allowed to transfer 2 embies at the same time.  I'm 34yo, and this is my first IVF and during our preliminary consultation, my husband and I asked if we can transfer 2 embies (I, too, wanted twins) and my RE said "absolutely not".  Given our age, he didn't want to risk multiple births and he did go over those risks with us. Mind you though, I've never been pregnant before, so I'm not sure (given your hx) what they would do...... Keep us posted, and good luck with your consult in January! 



#9 MommaM

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 12:41 PM

Hi Seem14,
Good luck with your upcoming IVF. I bet the IVF doctor will say the same thing to me about transferring 2 embryos but I've still, like you, got to ask. I will let you know what they say to me and their reasoning for it. I don't think my prior hx of a livebirth vs. your hx of no children yet makes the difference between allowing 1 or 2 embryos- more likely it comes down to age and therefore reproductive time left/potentially embryo quality etc.

#10 DrMichaelHartman

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 11:52 AM

This is a loaded post. I can't comment on the practices of any specific clinic and Invocell technology. 

I would agree with some of the other comments that rushing to IVF especially when you have been able to get pregnant fairly easily seems a bit excessive. Especially if you weren't doing genetic screening of the embryos to try to screen for chromosomal issues in the context of recurrent pregnancy loss..

You are better off getting a thorough workup with all the necessary tests before doing the most invasive treatment option. With proper testing you very well may only need a less involved treatment to the result you are hoping for.

 

Good luck and happy new year!


  • amp77 and MommaM like this

#11 MommaM

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 05:50 PM

Thank you for your reply, Dr. Hartman. Happy New Year to you as well.