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FET - Thin Lining. What did you do? Estrace vs Estradot? Advice Needed!


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#26 ms-tdot

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 02:28 PM

My last day of bcp was yesterday and I was on it for a total of 15 days. I asked my dr if I would bleed after stopping bcp and she said probably a little. I go for my scratch biopsy on Monday and then my "day 0" ultrasound is on the 11th. If lining is sufficiently thin (ha!) we start Estrace, viagra and aspirin.

#27 4 years and counting

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 02:31 PM

ms-tdot - I go on Friday the 4th for bloodwork and if all going to plan, will start estrace and Viagra on the 6th. I did not have a full flow; more like spotting.


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Me 43, DH 43

 

Trying since 2012

 

Natural Pregnancy May 2012, ended blighted ovum

Natural Pregnancy June 2013, miscarriage 6 weeks (chemical pregnancy)

Natural Pregnancy January 2014, miscarriage 8 weeks

IVF Pregnancy December 2016, miscarriage 4 weeks (chemical pregnancy)
IVF Pregnancy May 2017, 1st beta May 23 hcg 3,290, 2nd beta May 25 th_abfp.gif

First clinic 2012-2014

Second clinic 2014-present

 

Dx: diminished ovarian reserve; thin lining

 

Unsuccessful protocols: estrace, estradot patches, gonal f, natural cycle

 

Lining gets to 8.0 mm

 

Using donor eggs

 

FET attempts 15, transferred 4 times (2 BFN, 2 BFP), cycles canceled 11.

IUI attempts 2 (2 BFN)

 

Successful protocol for lining: estradot patches, Viagra

Successful protocol for FET: medrol, lovenox, PIO

 


#28 ms-tdot

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 03:47 PM

That sounds like what my RE expected for me, 4 years. Good luck with your u/s. Looks like we're about a week apart in protocol!!

#29 schlepp

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 08:33 PM

So thankful for this thread. Familiar faces in here! Thanks to those of you that have chimed in with support on the November FET.

 

Also struggling with thin lining. Was at 5 after 11 days of estrace 2mgx2 3 times a day vaginally. I looked back at previous test results and realise the best I've had was a 6 during my IVF cycle but even that retreated to 4 by the end of it. My CD3 ultrasounds have always shown 3mm. One CD6 showed 2mm. My RE never raised this as an issue.

 

I go back Thursday for an ultrasound but they haven't changed my dose. The one thing I changed after my ultrasound was that I stopped clearing out the estrace when I showered. I am just letting it all build in there. I feel like I've been getting terrible side effects in the last 24 hours (strong headache, nausea) whereas previously I was just bloated with a mild headache. Of course, my partner has the man flu so maybe it is that and has nothing to do with the estrace. 

 

Hopeful we all get our linings to where they need to be! Thanks again for posting all of these different protocol options. Gives me hope even if I am super frustrated with my RE that this is just cropping up now. 


See my 'about me' page for treatment history.


#30 Red Wine

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 09:06 PM

Best of luck on your upcoming FET's ladies.

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#31 cherbear

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 11:14 PM

Schlepp - welcome! I hope you find lots of support and encouragement here.

Red Wine - thanks!

I'm happy to see so much activity on this thread. Not happy we're all struggling with lining issues, of course. But just to know that we're not alone. The support I get from this group is so helpful and important to me.

I had a CD13 lining check today (Natural Cycle), and it was 4.2. Exactly the same as my CD16 lining on Estrace. So basically I could have been taking tic tacs last month and it wouldn't have made a difference. Lol. The clinic moved my HSG up three weeks to Nov 9th. That's within my current cycle, which means I may be able to start Estradot patches for our next mock cycle at CD1 in a couple of weeks, rather than waiting until December. It's a small victory, but I'll take what I can get!

Me: 35 DH: 33
Dec 2005 - ectopic #1 in right tube (lap surgery, tube saved)
Actively TTC since May 2012
March 2013 - ectopic #2 in right tube (treated with MTX)
July 2013 - HSG revealed left tube completely blocked, right tube open, uterine scarring
August 2013 referred to PCRM
Oct 2013 - hysteroscopy and exploratory lap surgery. Scar tissue removed from uterus.
IVF #1
Nov 13th 2013 - Dec 19th 2013 - suppression with BCP (Marvelon)Dec 24th 2013 - start 200 IU Puregon + 75 IU Menopur
Jan 4 2014 - ER (25 eggs, 23 mature, 15 fertilized)
Jan 9 2014 - ET (transferred 2 beautiful 5-day blasts - 4AA and 3AA) 3 frosties remaining
Jan 15 2014 - BFP!!!! th_abfp.gif
Jan 18 - Beta #1 @ 9dp5dt = 210, Jan 20 - Beta #2 @ 11dp5dt = 534!!! A baby is on the way!! yahoo.gif EDD Sept 27 2014
Sept 22nd 2014 - Myles David was born @ 3:27 am babyboy.gif We are so in love with this little boy! heart.gif

Sept 2015 - early miscarriage at about 5 weeks sad.png
Nov 2015 - BFP (natural conception) - no heartbeat at 8 week u/s icon_cry.gifSuspected molar pregnancy (22/12/15);Jan 2016 - 2 unsuccessful rounds of misoprostal - D&C required; April 2016 - repeat D&C for retained products - Pathology and cytogenetics confirmed a partial molar pregnancy.Oncologist advised waiting 6 months before TTC again.  

FET #1
Sept/Oct 2016 - Mock cycle (Estrace) = FAIL! Lining maxed out at 4.5mm
Oct/Nov 2016 - Natural cycle = FAIL!  Lining 4.2mm
Nov/Dec 2016 - Estradot Patch cycle - Come on lining!!! eusa_wall.gif


#32 schlepp

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 07:15 AM

cherbear - I can empathize. I am seriously questioning why I am taking all this estrace if my lining is the same as when I wasn't. And cheers to small victories!

 

I'm also trying to understand the role estrogen plays in lining. My estrogen was just over 9000 before I triggered for my IVF cycle. But my lining was at 4 or 5. If my estrogen was that high, shouldn't my lining have been higher? I am guessing I had more estrogen in me doing IVF than I do right now on 12mg of estrace each day. Just seems odd. At the time I blamed the lining on the weird AF I had due to the couple weeks of BCPs before hand IVF but now I am wondering if my lining doesn't respond to estrogen. I'm dreading following up with my RE as he does quite a bit of the 'blame the patient' for all poor results. I was told my BMI was too high and then the next appointment that I needed to workout less. I already have a naturopath I'm working with but he keeps pressing me to use the one at the clinic. If I get the same feedback when I follow up with him regarding lining I might have to switch REs. 


See my 'about me' page for treatment history.


#33 returnable

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 07:45 AM

Have any of you looked at the following paper? Perhaps discuss with your RE:

 

http://www.fertstert...(08)04783-3/pdf


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Two IVFs and no chromosomally normal blasts to transfer...we are done with my eggs.


#34 schlepp

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 08:04 AM

Have any of you looked at the following paper? Perhaps discuss with your RE:
 
http://www.fertstert...(08)04783-3/pdf


Very interesting! Thanks returnable. I think all 3 protocols were mentioned by my naturopath. Just annoyed it is too late for this cycle. If I don't have improvement tomorrow I will be ending this cycle and picking up supplements and asking for an rx for the viagara for the next. Thanks!

See my 'about me' page for treatment history.


#35 returnable

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 08:29 AM

I know I have seen FET protocols on these forums with Viagra. I know it is disappointing to have another delay, but hopefully you could see some improvement.

Two IVFs and no chromosomally normal blasts to transfer...we are done with my eggs.


#36 ms-tdot

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 10:44 AM

My past experience with Estrace has been dreadful. Not sure why I'm optimistic on this longer lupron pre-Estrace protocol, but I am.

I have also had high estrogen and poor lining. I think the reason REs use estrogen Is that they don't know what else to do do grow the lining besides some kind of estrogen protocol (either produced by your follicles or added to the body with pills, patches or injections).

#37 4 years and counting

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 10:49 AM

ms-tdot - I am so relieved that I am not the only one going through this battle of estrogen. I am feeling optimist as well about this cycle; maybe it's the Viagra; which I have been asking for for months. Fingers crossed for both of us. 

Quite honestly, I am about done with this journey.


Me 43, DH 43

 

Trying since 2012

 

Natural Pregnancy May 2012, ended blighted ovum

Natural Pregnancy June 2013, miscarriage 6 weeks (chemical pregnancy)

Natural Pregnancy January 2014, miscarriage 8 weeks

IVF Pregnancy December 2016, miscarriage 4 weeks (chemical pregnancy)
IVF Pregnancy May 2017, 1st beta May 23 hcg 3,290, 2nd beta May 25 th_abfp.gif

First clinic 2012-2014

Second clinic 2014-present

 

Dx: diminished ovarian reserve; thin lining

 

Unsuccessful protocols: estrace, estradot patches, gonal f, natural cycle

 

Lining gets to 8.0 mm

 

Using donor eggs

 

FET attempts 15, transferred 4 times (2 BFN, 2 BFP), cycles canceled 11.

IUI attempts 2 (2 BFN)

 

Successful protocol for lining: estradot patches, Viagra

Successful protocol for FET: medrol, lovenox, PIO

 


#38 schlepp

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 11:56 AM

Has anyone on this thread had the test mentioned in the study? Where they measure blood flow impiedance to the uterine radial arteries. Just wondering if that is something to as my RE about.

See my 'about me' page for treatment history.


#39 schlepp

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 07:22 AM

I cancelled. CD17 and it hasn't budged past 5.

I'm meeting my RE next week. Does anyone have any suggestions for questions to ask? I want to make sure he doesn't just suggest more estrogen.

Thanks in advance. And good luck to everyone!

See my 'about me' page for treatment history.


#40 4 years and counting

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 07:45 AM

schlepp - what protocols have you tried? Did you just try estrace or the patch as well? have you tried a natural cycle?


Me 43, DH 43

 

Trying since 2012

 

Natural Pregnancy May 2012, ended blighted ovum

Natural Pregnancy June 2013, miscarriage 6 weeks (chemical pregnancy)

Natural Pregnancy January 2014, miscarriage 8 weeks

IVF Pregnancy December 2016, miscarriage 4 weeks (chemical pregnancy)
IVF Pregnancy May 2017, 1st beta May 23 hcg 3,290, 2nd beta May 25 th_abfp.gif

First clinic 2012-2014

Second clinic 2014-present

 

Dx: diminished ovarian reserve; thin lining

 

Unsuccessful protocols: estrace, estradot patches, gonal f, natural cycle

 

Lining gets to 8.0 mm

 

Using donor eggs

 

FET attempts 15, transferred 4 times (2 BFN, 2 BFP), cycles canceled 11.

IUI attempts 2 (2 BFN)

 

Successful protocol for lining: estradot patches, Viagra

Successful protocol for FET: medrol, lovenox, PIO

 


#41 schlepp

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 07:53 AM

4 years and counting - Just estrace at 12mg daily, vaginally. I haven't done a non-medicated cycle but I can see my normal in non-medicated is around 4-5 from other scans. The nurse today said maybe they would try the patch next. But I don't think the issue is my estrogen isn't high enough. I have lots of high estrogen symptoms. I think my lining just doesn't react to it. Which is frustrating because I feel terrible on the estrace and it isn't doing anything.

I'm going to definitely do the Vit E supplements and L arginine next cycle. Just wondering if people jump to viagara next normally or if they make you try the patch first. Or do I ask for an endometrial scratch? I don't have a stockpile of embryos to try with when I get there, just the one. So I want my RE to be aggressive rather than a wait and see approach. I need to cycle again soon if this one embryo isn't successful.

Thanks in advance!

See my 'about me' page for treatment history.


#42 4 years and counting

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 07:59 AM

schlepp - I have the same issue. I don't think my estrogen is the problem either and my RE is always putting me on some type of estrogen. I am doing estrace and Viagra this cycle hopefully, but I had to request the Viagra many times. Going to tell you, Viagra is expensive. I am really hoping that the Viagra is the key.

 

I have also tried Gonal F, natural cycle, just the estrogen patch, letrozole.


Me 43, DH 43

 

Trying since 2012

 

Natural Pregnancy May 2012, ended blighted ovum

Natural Pregnancy June 2013, miscarriage 6 weeks (chemical pregnancy)

Natural Pregnancy January 2014, miscarriage 8 weeks

IVF Pregnancy December 2016, miscarriage 4 weeks (chemical pregnancy)
IVF Pregnancy May 2017, 1st beta May 23 hcg 3,290, 2nd beta May 25 th_abfp.gif

First clinic 2012-2014

Second clinic 2014-present

 

Dx: diminished ovarian reserve; thin lining

 

Unsuccessful protocols: estrace, estradot patches, gonal f, natural cycle

 

Lining gets to 8.0 mm

 

Using donor eggs

 

FET attempts 15, transferred 4 times (2 BFN, 2 BFP), cycles canceled 11.

IUI attempts 2 (2 BFN)

 

Successful protocol for lining: estradot patches, Viagra

Successful protocol for FET: medrol, lovenox, PIO

 


#43 schlepp

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 08:05 AM

4 years and counting - This is good to know. We don't have drug coverage. Gonal F would also be pricey. And that is what we used for IVF and my lining was 5 by ER on 500iu a day. So I will be saying no to that if he brings it up.

See my 'about me' page for treatment history.


#44 cherbear

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 04:50 PM

schlepp - I'm so sorry this cycle was a bust 😟. I know how it feels. So frustrating. I also hear you on wanting to just jump right into more aggressive protocols. We're trying patches next and, honestly, I'd be happy to skip straight to a low-dose stim cycle. Enough messing around. Let's just do this! I've requested an endo scratch. I had one last year and ended up pregnant with my first ever naturally-achieved uterine pregnancy (it ended up being a molar, but that's another issue). It doesn't seem like a coincidence to me that the one time I manage to get pregnant is right after an endo biopsy. Hoping my RE is on board with doing another one. We've also decided to say screw it with all these "mock" cycles. As soon as we get a decent lining we're transferring. As I said to my RE....we better use the good lining if we get it, because you never know.....we might never get it back. Plus I'm sick of this shit. Lol. Been waiting for over a year to even start treatment due to the molar pregnancy. I'm done waiting!

Me: 35 DH: 33
Dec 2005 - ectopic #1 in right tube (lap surgery, tube saved)
Actively TTC since May 2012
March 2013 - ectopic #2 in right tube (treated with MTX)
July 2013 - HSG revealed left tube completely blocked, right tube open, uterine scarring
August 2013 referred to PCRM
Oct 2013 - hysteroscopy and exploratory lap surgery. Scar tissue removed from uterus.
IVF #1
Nov 13th 2013 - Dec 19th 2013 - suppression with BCP (Marvelon)Dec 24th 2013 - start 200 IU Puregon + 75 IU Menopur
Jan 4 2014 - ER (25 eggs, 23 mature, 15 fertilized)
Jan 9 2014 - ET (transferred 2 beautiful 5-day blasts - 4AA and 3AA) 3 frosties remaining
Jan 15 2014 - BFP!!!! th_abfp.gif
Jan 18 - Beta #1 @ 9dp5dt = 210, Jan 20 - Beta #2 @ 11dp5dt = 534!!! A baby is on the way!! yahoo.gif EDD Sept 27 2014
Sept 22nd 2014 - Myles David was born @ 3:27 am babyboy.gif We are so in love with this little boy! heart.gif

Sept 2015 - early miscarriage at about 5 weeks sad.png
Nov 2015 - BFP (natural conception) - no heartbeat at 8 week u/s icon_cry.gifSuspected molar pregnancy (22/12/15);Jan 2016 - 2 unsuccessful rounds of misoprostal - D&C required; April 2016 - repeat D&C for retained products - Pathology and cytogenetics confirmed a partial molar pregnancy.Oncologist advised waiting 6 months before TTC again.  

FET #1
Sept/Oct 2016 - Mock cycle (Estrace) = FAIL! Lining maxed out at 4.5mm
Oct/Nov 2016 - Natural cycle = FAIL!  Lining 4.2mm
Nov/Dec 2016 - Estradot Patch cycle - Come on lining!!! eusa_wall.gif


#45 schlepp

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 07:56 AM

cherbear - I can't imagine. This one false start has already frustrated me. I think it is the anxiousness of wondering if I will be able to fix this.

 

I went to the osteopath yesterday and she did some work in the area. Acupuncture hasn't helped my lining but she thinks I should see an acupuncturist for just general health in the uterus. She thought it felt like the area had low vitality. I'm hesitant as it is expensive. I was doing the community acupuncture at $40 a visit during IVF and this last cycle. But the regular acupuncture with a fertility specialist is $85-115. I don't want to throw more money away on this when I can clearly see that acupuncture hasn't helped improve my lining previously, although I do find it relaxing. 

 

Anyone else tried it in-between FET cycles? It is tough when you can't actually tell without an ultrasound if anything is happening in there. 


See my 'about me' page for treatment history.


#46 ms-tdot

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 08:24 AM

I did letrozole and low-dose stims - only got to 5.5 and decided to transfer anyway. So now we have only 1 embryo left and I'm not transferring until it's at least 8 (even though I have never had a greater than 6.5 lining in my 1.5 years of being monitored, including in my IVF cycles).

#47 ms-tdot

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 08:29 AM

I did letrozole and low-dose stims - only got to 5.5 and decided to transfer anyway. So now we have only 1 embryo left and I'm not transferring until it's at least 8 (even though I have never had a greater than 6.5 lining in my 1.5 years of being monitored, including in my IVF cycles).

#48 amazing grace

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 09:37 AM

Schlepp,

I am sorry to hear about your cycle. I know it is frustrating, I had mine cancelled three times due to thin lining. I never had that problem but after my termination last year, I have had trouble. Regarding suggestions, I know it varies per person but what worked for me was gradual increase of estrace and Tomaxofin. Not sure if I spelled it correctly. My RE said that sometimes estrogen can work against the growth of the lining. In other words, too much estrogen is not particularly favourable. With this protocol, I was able to get my lining to 9.5. Hope it helps.

 

P.S. At the start of the cycle, he does a Neupogen wash as well.



#49 schlepp

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 09:56 AM

Schlepp,
I am sorry to hear about your cycle. I know it is frustrating, I had mine cancelled three times due to thin lining. I never had that problem but after my termination last year, I have had trouble. Regarding suggestions, I know it varies per person but what worked for me was gradual increase of estrace and Tomaxofin. Not sure if I spelled it correctly. My RE said that sometimes estrogen can work against the growth of the lining. In other words, too much estrogen is not particularly favourable. With this protocol, I was able to get my lining to 9.5. Hope it helps.
 
P.S. At the start of the cycle, he does a Neupogen wash as well.


That is very interesting. I was actual working with a naturopath on estrogen dominance. I think I had a bit of it prior to IVF and then it went crazy after IVF. Random weight gain and thyroid was normal. Lots of bloating. I was working on it by increasing my fibre and taking a supplement. Was seeing and feeling results but stopped the supplement with this cycle. Now back to bloated after all the estrace.

These suggestions are all very helpful! Thank you!

See my 'about me' page for treatment history.


#50 amazing grace

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 11:24 AM

You are so welcome,

I hope you find success!