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Required documentation/certification of legal counselling for egg donation?


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#1 piggypower

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 08:57 PM

My husband and I were informed by our RE that it is federal law to obtain legal counselling and certification of legal counselling for ourselves and our egg donor. To be clear, this is not a question about a legal agreement between us and our egg donor, but rather whether it is required by law to seek legal counselling with respect to our rights. 

 

Any insights on this? 



#2 ollie2013

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 11:02 PM

I have never heard of this

me 26, dh 32

ttc for almost 3 years

one ectopic pregnancy, lost one tube- 2013

one miscarriage- 2014

poor egg quality, unstable hormone levels. AMH dropped from 4 to 1.5 in 4 months.. had it retested and came back at 1.4

RE predicts that i will go through menopause around age 30..27 or 28. Suggests one round  of ivf and then it is time to move onto another option.

1st ivf booked to begin in september

Sept 17- B/w and U/S, Starting Stimulation

Clinic Error and IVF cycle cancelled in October- took some time to think about my options

 

November- Moving onto donor eggs-

donor #1 selected through little miracles

Dec 29- Lupron Injection

Jan 22- Estrace Started

Estimated Retrieval day for donor is Feb 6. 5 days into the cycle, donor was found to have cocaine and marijuana in her bloodstream- cycle cancelled.. heartbroken and very disappointed

Donor egg cycle round 2 - let's hope things go well this time!

Donor #2 selected... Retrieval in April!


#3 Lola1973

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 08:14 AM

Yes, my husband and I had a session with a counsellor as requested by our clinic (we used frozen donor eggs so the donor wasn't involved). We discussed our infertility history with the counsellor and how we came to the decision of using donor eggs. We also discussed what to tell/how to tell the child later. I found it hepful.

Ttc first child for both of us since February 2012

Surgery and diagnosis of severe endometriosis Nov. 2012

IVF#1 April 2013: BFP8388.gif 9 weeks

IVF#2 Sept 2013: BFP8388.gif 9,5 weeks

Clinic 2:

IVF#3 May 2014: Embryo banking: 4 blasts

IVF#4 July 2014: Embryo banking: 3 blasts

PGS Result August 2014: All 7 blasts are abnormal... Moving on to DE.

Clinic 3:

Transfer #1 Feb. 2015: BFN

Transfer #2 June 2015: BFN

Transfer #3 Sept 2015: th_abfp.gifon hpt Sept 24!!!!

1st beta 12dp3dt: 421 2nd beta 14dp3dt:1025 Viability US (6w6d): One perfect baby measuring 7.0 weeks with HB of 130!!yahoo.gif

8- week US: Cutest little gummy bear measuring 8w1d

Harmony test 10weeks: Risk of trisomy 13, 18 and 21 under 1 in 10,000
20-week US: Baby girl right on track!

Lilypie Pregnancy tickers


#4 s00n

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 08:31 AM

Makes sense to me. Nothing could be more threatening to your relationship with your child than not disclosing their origins at an appropriate time. It's good the law is protecting children and families by ensuring they have some thoughts about this before engaging.
Him- Potential SA issues Me- PCOS like crazy/anovulation/long cycles. Started TTC before 30. TTC/Secondary Infertility(2008-2015) - Adopted from public system in Ontario 2012. Freeze-All IVF after OHSS, and successful FET 2015 @ 36Yrs Old.

#5 Lola1973

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 08:43 AM

Another aspect that seemed to interest the counsellor was how I felt about it. They want a recipient who is emotionally ready. It makes sense too, doesn't it?

In the end, it went very well. There was a positive energy between her and us:)

Ttc first child for both of us since February 2012

Surgery and diagnosis of severe endometriosis Nov. 2012

IVF#1 April 2013: BFP8388.gif 9 weeks

IVF#2 Sept 2013: BFP8388.gif 9,5 weeks

Clinic 2:

IVF#3 May 2014: Embryo banking: 4 blasts

IVF#4 July 2014: Embryo banking: 3 blasts

PGS Result August 2014: All 7 blasts are abnormal... Moving on to DE.

Clinic 3:

Transfer #1 Feb. 2015: BFN

Transfer #2 June 2015: BFN

Transfer #3 Sept 2015: th_abfp.gifon hpt Sept 24!!!!

1st beta 12dp3dt: 421 2nd beta 14dp3dt:1025 Viability US (6w6d): One perfect baby measuring 7.0 weeks with HB of 130!!yahoo.gif

8- week US: Cutest little gummy bear measuring 8w1d

Harmony test 10weeks: Risk of trisomy 13, 18 and 21 under 1 in 10,000
20-week US: Baby girl right on track!

Lilypie Pregnancy tickers


#6 ollie2013

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 12:05 PM

what province are you in

My husband and I were informed today by our RE that it is federal law to obtain legal counselling and certification of legal counselling for ourselves and our egg donor. To be clear, this is not a question about a legal agreement between us and our egg donor, but rather whether it is required by law to seek legal counselling with respect to our rights. 

 

Any insights on this? 


me 26, dh 32

ttc for almost 3 years

one ectopic pregnancy, lost one tube- 2013

one miscarriage- 2014

poor egg quality, unstable hormone levels. AMH dropped from 4 to 1.5 in 4 months.. had it retested and came back at 1.4

RE predicts that i will go through menopause around age 30..27 or 28. Suggests one round  of ivf and then it is time to move onto another option.

1st ivf booked to begin in september

Sept 17- B/w and U/S, Starting Stimulation

Clinic Error and IVF cycle cancelled in October- took some time to think about my options

 

November- Moving onto donor eggs-

donor #1 selected through little miracles

Dec 29- Lupron Injection

Jan 22- Estrace Started

Estimated Retrieval day for donor is Feb 6. 5 days into the cycle, donor was found to have cocaine and marijuana in her bloodstream- cycle cancelled.. heartbroken and very disappointed

Donor egg cycle round 2 - let's hope things go well this time!

Donor #2 selected... Retrieval in April!


#7 north

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 12:35 PM

My husband and I were informed today by our RE that it is federal law to obtain legal counselling and certification of legal counselling for ourselves and our egg donor. To be clear, this is not a question about a legal agreement between us and our egg donor, but rather whether it is required by law to seek legal counselling with respect to our rights. 

 

Any insights on this? 

piggypower,

You said that you were told you needed "legal counselling." Most of us who go the donor route are required by our clinics to a psychological counselling session with a counsellor/therapist/psychologist and found such sessions very helpful. 

But it doesn't sound like that's what you're talking about....? 

Perhaps your RE was recommending you seek out "legal COUNSEL" which would mean a lawyer. Does that sound right? 

north


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#8 piggypower

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 04:52 PM

I'm in Ontario.  The RE was very specific and said it was a federal law and not provincial.  He said it was a Health Canada regulation.  I am not referring to regular psychological counselling, which I understand must be made available to those undergoing and receiving egg donation. I'm talking about legal (as in the law with the use of a lawyer's stamp) counselling as required BY LAW by the federal government.  This is what I was told. I made sure to clarify to ensure I understood.

 

I have looked through the AHR Act and understand that there were changes made to it in the past couple of years that minimized the government's role. I didn't see anything about requiring a lawyer.

 

Was hoping a fertility lawyer could comment further.

 

Thanks everyone smile.png



#9 piggypower

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 04:58 PM

I think I know the answer. I'm pretty sure it's no. But, the clinic may require us to do it because those are their business rules. I doubt it is required by law. This is the same type of "rule" that applies to psychological counselling. That is also not required by law, but recommended.  I think it's up to the clinic to decide whether it's required.  I was really hoping that I wouldn't have to do this. It's another (large) expense, more days off work, etc...


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#10 ociwoman

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 09:56 PM

This is not required by federal law. No person can force another person in Canada to seek, pay for or prove they have received legal advice on ANY matter. It is not a Health Canada regulation to have legal counselling. HC simply recommends counselling if undergoing infertility treatment.

Hope this helps.
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#11 SherryLevitan

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 03:03 PM

Hi Piggypower,

 

The federal legislation originally contained a provision requiring that each clinic make counselling available to its patients. That clause was struck in the constitutional challenge. However, most clinics do have rules about requiring counselling, and to some extent, some legal advice. I am in agreement with some of the other people who have already responded here, that there is great value to speaking with a counsellor and a lawyer. I especially caution patients not to take counselling or legal advice from their physicians! I know that some clinics will deny treatment unless their process is followed, but the federal legislation does not require that you meet with either a lawyer or a counsellor.

 

In the future, if you need an answer quickly, just pop me an email.  


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#12 piggypower

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 10:13 PM

So I ended up going to see a lawyer and a counsellor as suggested by my doc. They both (the lawyer and counsellor) insisted that it was absolutely a legal requirement to see them. I don't even know what to think because it makes no sense to me. I just couldn't be bothered to argue with them. Maybe I should've because it cost me  A LOT of extra money. th_agrr.gif



#13 Tess

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 01:36 AM

So I ended up going to see a lawyer and a counsellor as suggested by my doc. They both (the lawyer and counsellor) insisted that it was absolutely a legal requirement to see them. I don't even know what to think because it makes no sense to me. I just couldn't be bothered to argue with them. Maybe I should've because it cost me  A LOT of extra money. th_agrr.gif

 

 

I'm so sorry you are dealing with this.  No legal requirement exists that requires patients to talk to a lawyer and/or a counsellor.

 

Clinics may mandate counselling.  And it sounds like yours also mandated talking to a lawyer.  Don't know why the clinic told you it was a federal law.

 

The supreme court case brought by Quebec that knocked down a lot of the Human Reproduction Act did so by determining that many aspects of reproductive law must be governed and administrated by the provinces, not by the federal government.  The federal government absolutely does not have a law mandating legal consults or therapy.

 

I sure hope your clinic isn't feeding clients to a particular lawyer.  Good luck with your treatment and, again, I'm so sorry people are telling you misinformation.


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#14 piggypower

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 11:31 PM

Thanks Tess. Yes, our clinic provided a list of suggested lawyers. We went with one of them and it was a waste of time and money. Thoroughly useless. Can you tell I'm annoyed? LOL!

 

It would be different if my RE had said that his clinic required documentation from a lawyer. That I could understand! His clinic- his rules. I get it. But to insist that it is federal law? That's just......ugh. My husband knew something was off right away so he asked our RE if the clinic could provide us with some paper work, like the subsection in the Act that made this a requirement. Our RE freaked out told us to look it up ourselves online and yelled "ARE YOU TELLING ME I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO MY JOB!?"  Dude, we just want to read the law. Why so defensive? 

 

I knew that our RE could insist that we see a lawyer anyway so I chose not to argue with him. Things at that clinic had not been going well (the clinic coordinator- oh my god...don't even get me started on the craziness there) and I didn't want to make things worse. Ugh...the stress. :(


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#15 Tess

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Posted 22 February 2016 - 01:24 AM

ugh!  the situation sounds really stressful!  and the clinic sounds unprofessional.  I'm so sorry you are dealing with this situation.

 

Have you considered switching clinics or interviewing other doctors?  Fertility treatment is stressful enough without having to deal with this kind of nonsense.