5177 replies to this topic

[RO'sBaby]

Hi girls,

Hope everyone had a relaxing weekend.

JC & S - that is so great that your bosses have been so understanding. That will really help when you're both making trips to the fertility clinic for your IVF (or whatever) and then for the doctor apponitments you'll need when you're both expecting twins!!!!!!! I know it will happen, it will happen for all of us, we're all going to be big and rolly-polly next year with babies on the way. Then we'll complain about stretch marks and sore boobs...how great is that going to be!

You gotta have faith girls. I'm usually a bummer about this stuff but I have decided that I can't be like that anymore (maybe it's that book I spoke about, The Secret, I can't say for sure). I want children and children is what I will have. And so will you. I can picture them when I close my eyes. Maybe I sound a little crazy but its all I have to work with.

I'm a science-minded person who works for a pharmaceutical company helping to manage clinical trials. I'm surrounded by scientific fact everyday. So the fact is...my DH's SA showed NO sperm, that is a fact. Obviously the worse fact I've ever come across but it is what it is. So here's another fact, my DH, aside from having NO sperm is to me an amazing man who makes an amazing husband and will be amazing father. That is a fact. Also a fact, there are things in my life that I can accept (my thighs are too big, my hair will never be as long as I want it to be, my mother and I will never be best friends) but what I can not accept is not being a mother. That is a fact, I can not accept that so I won't. And neither should you. I can tell just by the way you write that you are caring, sensitive women who would raise wonderful children. That is also a fact. And if I can see it then so should you. So you have to believe me when I say that we will be mommies. And you have to believe it for yourselves. Close your eyes and tell yourself everyday that today you are one day closer to having a baby!!! And it will happen for us.

Wednesday is our appointment with the urologist and then I will join you on the hunt to discover what our problem is and how we're going to overcome it. On Wednesday I will also begin the "hurry up and wait game". I'm not going to like and I will have many bad days to come but everyday we will be one day closer to being parents and that's what is most important.

One day closer...
ro

[MacReady]

Thanks so much for that post Ro! It was greatly needed and with all this positive energy how can we be anything but successful!!

One day closer.... I love it!

[RO'sBaby]

And I love that you believe it.
We can get through this together, one day at a time.

We're one day closer...
ro

[RO'sBaby]

Hi S and JC,

So here's what happened yesterday at the urologist:
- DH had a qucik physical exam right on the spot. The vas deferans are present, there are no varicoceles or any other abnormal growths that could be felt. Size and appearance is normal. That's good news but also bad news. Because physically things seem fine the Dr. thinks that there is a good possibility that his problem is congenital.
- DH did some hormonal blood work yesterday (FSH, LH, progesterone and testosterone). We get the results on September 4th. If the FSH comes back greater than 2x upper limit normal, then that basically means that DHs body can not produce sperm cells. If that's the case then an intense biopsy can be done to see if there immature cells that we could use for IVF with ICSI but the odds of that are slim. If the FSH comes back normal then they will do a biopsy and ultrasounds to see if they can still find a blockage and see if sperm is being produced.

To me it was bad news. The hope was that there was an obvious blockage and then there would be a very good chance that sperms cells could be easily harvested for IVF. That's not the case so we now have to wait for the blood test results. The Dr. was realy good and answered all my questions. I wanted to do untrasounds, biopsy, genetics right away but the reality is that the hormone test results will dictate which path we have to take. So now we wait.

What pisses me off is that our regular family Dr. could have sent him for that kind of blood work a long time ago. Then, when the urologist got the results, we would have already known what to do next. So if I can advise you of anything it is to get your GP to send your DHs for hormonal blood work while you wait for your appointments (if you haven't already done that, of course).

I'm pissed and sad but it is what it is so we have to move forward. All the way home DH and I talked about the possibilities and all the "what ifs". He's being really strong so that helps me a lot. We also had a big chat about using a donor. The urologist mentioned it a few times and from the info he gave us it looks like that is going to be our best option of having a family. Its a big decision to make and I would think that my DH would have some reservations but he's all for it. I never in my life thought I'd ever have to have that conversation with my husband!!!

Its sucks to be us right now, but we'll all get through it.
I hope you two are doing OK.

Chat soon,
ro

[Ope]

I am so sorry to hear these bad news. The waiting is the worst because your head getting full of those nasty "whatif"s.
And the donor talk is very tough one. We also talked about it with my dh, actually he brought the whole thing up. He thinksdonor is a great option, because we might not even need IVF only IUI which is much safer on me and cheaper etc. But I just do not want to carry a stranger baby, rather adopt.
I am so tied of waiting that today I called my family dr to ask why we haven't get any phone call yet from the clinic. She said she will get a call within a months for scheduling the first appointment. So far 5 weeks gone no call yet.
Somedays it is hard to keep up, but we have to!!!
All of us will have one or more beautiful child one day, I am sure
Wish the best
Ope

Ro,
I am so sorry that things did not go the way you wanted - but don't get down yet. As you know, there's still a possibility of an obstruction in one of the smaller tubes, so without knowing your DH's bloodwork, there's still a good chance that there are perfectly good sperm looking for a way out!
You're very right about the bloodwork. Now to be fair, it's ususally ordered by the fertility doc (RE), not the family doc. I had my appts the other way around, ie, saw the fertility specialist first who did blood work then referred us to the urologist, so I guess it depends on the order.
I'm glad that you and DH were able to discuss other options, like donor. At least we all know that we have other ways to create our families.

Hang in there Ro - until you know for sure, there's still hope, even though this waiting is tough. I really liked your thoughts the other day about keeping positive, and looking for sources of inspiration. I actually listed my top 5 favourite books and am rereading them, and it has been a good comfort. If you guys haven't read it, I highly recommend Like Water for Chocolate. I also have been getting back in touch with people, and have been able to talk more openly about infertility stuff.
Ope- I think you're right to call. My limited experience with the health care system has taught me that you are your best advocate, and sometimes you have to be pretty proactive.

DH and I have an appointment with the RE on Monday to get the results of his bloodwork back. We don't see the urologist until september.
I'll let you know how it goes.


JC

[MacReady]

Ro,

I'm so sorry you didn't get the news you were hoping for. I actually read your post yesterday but didn't have time to sit down and compose something meaningful to say but I'm still not sure I know... but it sounds like you and your dh have the right attitude with it all, it is what it is... you just have to take that information and move on to the next steps. You're one step closer... and like JC said, there is still a chance that they will find some sperm. I've read a lot in the last few months that even with non-obstructive there is a good chance of finding enough viable sperm for ICSI.

I hear your frustration with the testing. I've often thought the same thing. Our RE sent DH for the bloodwork and the Urologist actually sent a requisition in the mail for DH to have it done before his first appointment which was great... but to me back in February when we were faced with an average 4 month wait for the RE and 10 month wait for the urologist it seemed like there should have been tests we could have been doing in the meantime. And now I know that DH's bloodwork and my HSG would have been two obvious things. Even now that we're waiting 2 months to get back in to see the RE, I've called and asked to have a doctor or nurse review our tests results so we could be sent for any additional testing before that appointment... but I've just been playing phone tag and no one seems to be able to give me those answers. Age is such a huge factor in all of this yet months seem to be wasted because of inefficiencies. URGH!!

I also understand how weird it is to have the donor conversation. I remember reading an article a little over a year ago about kids born by donor sperm and thinking 'wow, I can't even imagine being faced with that decision -- thank God that will never be me..." How things change!! Oddly I have found that to be a much easier decision than I ever would have thought but sometimes it still doesn't seem real. I guess its still just one more "what-if" at this stage...

Keep your spirits up (I know that's easier said than done sometimes :-( ). We're here if you need us and I'll be hoping for some positive results on the bloodwork!

JC -- good luck on Monday!

S.

[RO'sBaby]

Hi girls,

Thanks for your messages, yesterday night I was just so pissed off. You can't explain the rollercoaster of emotions but a switch just went off yesterday and I was mad. I'm better this morning so its time to get back on the feeling positive train. My best friend is also suffering from infertility so we made a joke that we'd use the same donor and have kids that were half-siblings. Anything for a laugh!

JC - good luck on Monday! I'll pray every night for you and send positive vibes. I hope that everything works out in your favor and that you get good news. I may have been pissy yesterday but talking to you girls, people who understand exactly how I feel, makes me feel better.

So its time to start thinking "we're one day closer" again, because we are.
Yesterday is over, today is a new day.

Keep on truckin'...
ro

PS : S - did you get to go on your vacation yet? I hope it was relaxing and you and your DH really enjoyed yourselves.

[YCWIFE]

Hey Ladies,

I hope you don't mind if I join you. We are in the same boat as everyone, the investigation phase. All my DH's hormone testing and blood tests have come back normal. He had an ultrasound and they couldn't find any seminal vesicles on the ultrasound. So, we are heading to the urologists in September. The doctor thinks the vas deferens are there just not the seminal vesicles. We are waiting to see what the urologist thinks and then we have another appointment after that with the fertility doctor. The one positive side of seeing the urologist is that it saves you money because he can send you for a biopsy to retrieve sperm and it is considered "diagnostic purposes" so it is cheaper. Then you just have to pay for them to store the sperm as opposed to paying for ICSI. So, try and get your urologist to send your DH for diagnostic testing.

It is nice to know that we are not alone in all our thoughts and emotions. It is definitely not how I pictured things turning out but we are slowly working through it all.

[RO'sBaby]

Hi YC,

Welcome to our little club, its sucks but we seem to be of some comfort to eachother. I hope you'll feel better once chatting with us.
Looks like you're in the same boat as myself, JC and S. We're all still investigating...and waiting (which is the worst part).

Thanks for the urologist info, I didn't realize that we could get biopsies and retrievals done with them and not pay as opposed to during it through a fertility clinic. That's good to know, especially since everything to do with infertility treatments are so expensive. In this country, having babies is a gift and not a right so you have to suck it up and PAY!

We won't know anything further until September 4th when we get DH's blood work back. Hopefully someone else on this string has some good news to share soon. I'd love to hear it.

Prayin' hard for all of you,
ro

[MacReady]

Hi everyone,

Welcome YC and thanks for the info on the biopsy/retrievals. We were actually wondering about the costs involved for that because its not listed on the price list for the fertility clinic. We were going to ask at our next appointment who does that and when and what it costs. So that's good to know!

Ro, I haven't gone on vacation yet but we were camping this past weekend which was great and vacation is just around the corner... we're off next week. We're just heading to the cottage and to veg and spend time with family so I'm really looking forward to it!! I'm really glad a lot of our waiting has been during the summer months when its a bit easier to get out and keep your mind off things.

Ope, I read on another thread that you're looking into IVM at McGill... I really hope that works out for you and cuts off some of the wait time!! I've also read that it can be so much easier on the body!! I asked about it at an IVF info session and the doctor there said that our clinic basically doesn't do it(although they list it as one of their services) and that its only recommended for PCOS. But on this site I've read some stories about people using it for male factor and all the benefits, but McGill is the only clinic that seems to offer IVM right now for anything other than PCOS. I've also been reading about your acupuncture experience and I've read so many positive things that I've been planning to start going possibly in September. I have very short periods and even though everyone seems to tell me that's not a problem I worry about implantation and want to know I've done everything I can. I thought maybe acupuncture to help thicken my lining and reduce stress would be a good compliment to our treatments but hearing that your periods have actually gotten lighter concerns me. I'll keep checking the other threads for updates on this but thanks for bringing these issues up!!

Have a great week ladies!
S.

[RO'sBaby]

Hi S,

Sounds like you'll have a relaxing vacation. I should sign-up for one of those too!

This whole story about IVM is very interesting, I'm going to read up on it more and see if its something that can help us too. I never asked the urologist about it and we don't see the fertility specialist until September 21st so I'll have to get myself up to speed before that. My clinic is ISIS in Mississauga, I wonder if there are clinics in Toronto that would perform that procedure.

To be very truthful, I'm starting to get used to the idea that we're going to end up using a donor and I will be carrying babies that are not biologically my husband's. I know that there is still hope but my mind has already gone in that direction so I'm preping for it.

Only time will tell for sure.

ro

[Ope]

Hi S.
We made up our mind about seriously cut off the waiting time, and it seems that McGill doesn't have any and they do accept self-referral!!! I am very excited and positive now. Somehow I believe I have a baby growing inside me by this Xmas. I started to read about IVM from all kind of sources. It is the newest technology, so many clinics never had tried so they do not offer because they lack of skills and experience to do it. And from their point of view why bother as it is less money to collect for it ... I spend a day or so to read through every single fertility clinics website in Canada and there is only 3 list it as a service, but there is only McGill which is list the price for it($3950 included ICSI), because they actually do it the other two not really. It is not just for PCOS it is great for male factor, if the women is young. It does not need anything else just that the women have lots of antral resting follicles, which we tend to have less and less as we are aging. I am going 3rd day U/s next month and I'll find out. I am 32 so it is a maybe. Usually women over 35 has not enough antral follicles to worth to try IVM. If I do not have enough follices to try IVM, even IVF is very fast at McGill. Also it is $1000 cheaper then Foothill, which is exactly covers out flight ticket, so there is no disadvantage to go that far.
About my acupuncture you should not be discouraged as I was not treated for fertility. Since I wrote that post my acupuncturists came back from vacation, and I talked to him. He said it is the herb he gave me, which was also the opinion of this site acupuncture expert's as well. My acupuncturist said it is temporary and as my dh still have 5-6 weeks more treatment, so I can continue the herbs during this time. After that he will stop me to take the herbs and only do acupuncture to help implantation.
Otherwise I have a very positive experience with acupuncture, it fix my back ache in 2 session.
So just stay positive and it will happen !
Ope

[MacReady]

Ope - that's so great that you are feeling so positive now. I truly hope that you get your BFP by Xmas!! I had gotten very interested in IVM after reading up on this site but put it behind us after asking the doctor from our clinic. I knew that McGill was doing more with it but thought travelling would be a bit of pain and wasn't sure about wait times. But we are on the East Coast and not so far from Montreal and hearing that the wait times are short... this may be something I'll have to revisit. Even with travel it would also be cheaper for us I believe. However, we still have to find out it we can use dh's sperm and I am also 32, almost 33... but this is great information!! Thanks also for the reassurance of acupuncture!!

[RO'sBaby]

Hi Ope,

That is great info. And Montreal is only a 5 hour drive from us to that could also be a possibility for my DH and I. I was just doing some reading on it as well and it seems to be much friendlier on a woman's body than IVF is (which to me sounds like torture). I will have to remember to ask my RE about it.

I haven't done anything for infertility but I did do accupunture on both wrists (all the way up to my elbows) for ulnar nerve syndrome (almost like carpal tunnel) and after 2 treatments I haven't had any pain since. So I would definitely recommend it too.

Good luck Ope, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. You have to believe that you'll be pregnant for Christmas and then your wishes can come true. It's that law of attraction at work again!

Sending good vibes,
ro

[MacReady]

ha ha... just noticed in my last post I said I was almost 33... actually I'm almost 32, but I had to do some serious thinking to confirm that!! People talk about baby brain when they're pregnant, I really hope it doesn't get much worse! ha ha

[RO'sBaby]

That's funny S.
My memory is shot too so I hope that isn't going to be a problem for me. I'd be in bad shape!

Hi Everyone and Welcome YC!

S - Have a wonderful vacation. Chillin' at a cottage sounds awesome. I hope you have great weather.

Ope - I'm so happy for you guys. I just checked out the McGill site and it sounds like they are really progressive. If we need to consider that stage, I'll have to bug my RE about the possibility of IVM. I'm all about 10 days less of injections!

OK, so, we had our appointment today with the RE to review the bloodwork, and I guess it was mostly good news. No CF. Chromosomes normal, and all hormone levels normal. So bloodwork most in keeping with obstuction. Ultrasound of my ovaries fine. Then, we reviewed the results of an ultrasound that DH actually had 7 years ago when he had some testicular pain. Our family doc had ordered it, and I can't even remember reviewing it with her, but I think at the time she had said that there was no significant abnormality, and DH's pain had gone away so we had forgotten about it. When all this infertility stuff started, I tracked the report down and had it faxed to our RE. He showed us the report, and it actually says that there were small bilateral spermatoceles. He said this is highly suggestive of an obstruction. He said that the spermatoceles are usually a symptom, not the cause of obstruction. I was initially pretty angry because I sure wish we would have known this before we started trying to get pregnant, but he said that transient spermatoceles are pretty common in guys, and that unless he was symptomatic they wouldn't have done anything about them.
So we see the urologist on Sep 11, but at least we're pretty sure what we are dealing with. And I guess it's good news because there's no reason to think that there won't be good sperm there. So that's good. At lunch today, DH and I had a toast to "not terrible news!" We had a laugh anyways.

Now here's what I really wanted to share with you guys, and I might even ask the moderator, Dr. Hollands about this. Our RE said that he highly recommended using donor if the urologist is unable to extract viable sperm, and then explained that possibly in as soon as 1 year it will not only be illegal for Canadians to be paid to donate sperm (current status quo) but that we might also be barred from using any sperm bank, including those in the US, as it is a paid service. I am going to look into this one some more, and if you guys know about please let me know, but depending on how soon this comes down, it might be impossible to get a 'commercial' sperm donor ie from a bank, and the only option would be volunteer donations, or friends etc., which will greatly limit access.

Take care,
JC

[MacReady]

JC,
That's definately positive news! I'm so happy for you!

Did your RE order the ultrasound of your ovaries? No one has mentioned that to me yet, I'll have to ask at our next appointment.

I haven't heard anything about the sperm banks, but that definately concerns me. I'm going to do some digging and see what I can find. Thanks for the heads up!

S.

[RO'sBaby]

That is great news JC - here's to viable sperm floating around there somewhere!!!
I hope that a biosy shows a ton of "solidiers" swimming around that you can use for IVF oe IVM if you're lucky.

Regarding the sperm bank, I had no idea. I have not heard anything about that but I will definitely ask my RE on Sept 21 when we finally meet her about it because our urologist said there is a good chance that my DH has a congenital problem and that means 0 sperm. So we have already talked about using a donor. The thought that that may not be a possibility really scares me. And the idea of using the sperm of someone we know for me is out of the question. I don't like that idea at all. Thanks for the info, I'll have to look into this one too.

So, so far we have good news for JC and for Ope.
S, you and I are next...

We're one day closer ladies!
ro

[MacReady]

Here's an article I found re the availability of sperm. It all has to do with that Assisted Human Reproduction Act which you hear mentioned a lot on this site with regards to surrogacy. I wasn't aware of the impact this had on sperm donors....

http://www.cbc.ca/he...m-shortage.html

[Ope]

Here's an article I found re the availability of sperm. It all has to do with that Assisted Human Reproduction Act which you hear mentioned a lot on this site with regards to surrogacy. I wasn't aware of the impact this had on sperm donors....

http://www.cbc.ca/he...m-shortage.html

Unfortunately the law of supply and demand always takes an effect. The demand is the same but without payment there is much less supply of donor sperm or egg since the act, so the result is shortage.
Sometimes I wonder there is any economist is sitting among the government policy makers because this was so predictable.
I understand that excessive amount of money may seems unethical, but $75 they used to pay before was practically covering the time and travel.
I hope at the end, all of our dhs will have enough viable sperm to make a baby and none of us will need to face family and friend asking for donor sperm.
Ope

[YCWIFE]

I also heard that about donor sperm. However, I don't think we would go that route. I can't wrap my head around having another person's baby...That's just me though. I think we would go the adoption route. I am hopeful that there are sperm though as all the blood and karyotyping tests were normal.

That is great that you got good news JC. Hopefully the urologist will have good things to say to both of us. We have to wait until September 18th though!

It seems like forever until our appointment! Here's to good news to come for everyone!

[RO'sBaby]

Hi all,

S - thanks for posting that article.

Since JCs post I've been worried about this whole shortage thing. That was going to be the route my DH and I were going to take if his azoospermia problem is congenital. Now we really need to get a move on with this process to find out for sure.

I also looked into finding clinics in the Mississauga/Toronto area that do IVM, so far nothing.
Ope - Other than McGill, do you know of any other clinics that perform this procedure?

Chat soon,
ro

[Ope]

Hi all,

S - thanks for posting that article.

Since JCs post I've been worried about this whole shortage thing. That was going to be the route my DH and I were going to take if his azoospermia problem is congenital. Now we really need to get a move on with this process to find out for sure.

I also looked into finding clinics in the Mississauga/Toronto area that do IVM, so far nothing.
Ope - Other than McGill, do you know of any other clinics that perform this procedure?

Chat soon,
ro

Hi Ro,
I went through all the canadian clinics website and I found only 3 clinics which mentioned IVM as a tretment or services: IVF canada (Toronto) AART(Halifax) and McGill(Montreal. However, the first two listed as a service , but IVM are NOT on their publicly available price list, although everything else is on that price list. So probably they actually do not really do it as they do not even know how much they would charge for it. I haven't read anywhere any other clinics patient doing IVM in canada except McGill.
If you ar in Toronto , it is worth to give a call to IVF Canada, but I do not think they will actually consider it. In any case, Montreal is not that far from you .
Ope