33 replies to this topic

[sid8019]

All, I have gone 2 SA test done and both have shown 0 sperm motility and 1% sperm morphology. Sperm count around 45 million Sperm viability is 40%. The Urologist has performed all the hormonal testing and the Testosterone was 370. He said he cant do anything and its an unusual case,he said we can try IVF. I am currently on no medication but have used Antidepressants in the past in 2012 for 6 months and after that my sexual life changed forever, Although i have average libido and no erection issues,there is a problem with sensitivity. Coming back to the SA results,what could cause ZERO sperm motility, can ICSI really solve it? IVF for multiple cycles is 22k $ and i am not sure what to do at this point... Nothing is covered by insurance.

[Novascotian]

I assume the tests were 3 months apart.

 

My husband had a high fever with a flu and he essentially went to zero motility but it did recover.

 

I am no expert, but ICSI can do amazing things.

 

Not sure what would cause zero motility.  Do you use a laptop much? Cell phone in pocket?  Wifi on laptop? Some studies find an impact with those things, although I can recall which factors they impact the most.

[Novascotian]

https://sites.google...-male-fertility

[sid8019]

Hi NovaScotian, Thanks for the quick response,those SA tests were done 4 weeks apart. Since we are ttc since 9 months and my wife has no issues,i assume it could be me but didnt expect Zero motility. I am a software developer,so the job requires sitting for long periods of time and using desktop/laptop/wifi etc However i dont keep the laptop on my lap. I did have flu in march and had taken antibiotics...but my results from both june and july showed zero motility and therefore i am shocked by the results. I used to wear very tight underwear and have switched to boxers,have started acupuncture and antioxidant ACES plus zinc and Coq-10. I am thinking about l-carnitine and l-arginine but i saw a naturopath who didnt recommend it. Its awesome that ICSI can be done but with immotile sperm and 1% morphology its pretty scary and stressful right now. I see in your signature that your DH motility recovered to 50%...and you still had to do IVF?

[amp77]

Have you tried Fertilaid for men?  My friend and husband were trying to conceive for 2.5 years.  They found out that they had male factor infertility and would have to do IVF (I don't know what his values were, however).  They did 2 rounds of IVF and were unsuccessful.  Then, they got a spontaneous natural pregnancy.  She thinks it was the Fertilaid but he hasn't been tested again so it might have just been that 1 in a million chance of success.

 

I think I read that Vitamin A and Omegas help as well.

 

It sounds like you are doing all the right things so I hope that you can see some improvement.  Keep in mind with ICSI they are finding a good sperm to inject right in the egg so the quality isn't as important.

 

Best of luck to you and your wife!

[sid8019]

Amp77,Congrats to you and your DH for the BFP.

 

I did ask the Urologist,if fertilaid or anyother supplement would help?

 

He said that if 2 SA confirm that there is zero motility then nothing can be done.

 

Do you know if your friend's DH had Zero Motility?

 

He referred to a IVF Clinic which has high success rates.

 

I decided to see a naturopath who had helped me get off antidepressants and she once again gave me hope,

she said COQ10 and ACES Plus Zinc should definitely help with motility.

 

I decided on Acupuncture after doing research online,the Acupuncturist was honest enough to tell that acupuncture concentrates on overall health of body and mind,so it might indirectly help sperm.But no Assurance.

 

She seemed to be confident,my next SA is scheduled for October1st

[amp77]

Thank you!  I can ask her what his motility was and let you know.

 

I did acupuncture, for myself, and I didn't really expect it to do anything, but I got more eggs, more mature eggs, thicker lining, and BFP, and am sure that it played a role!

 

I think it is great that you are seeing a naturopath.  Your body can do amazing things ones everything starts to become healthy and work together.

[amp77]

She said his motility was fine but he only had 2% normal sperm.  They were given the impression, however, that Fertilaid can help all types of sperm issues.

[sid8019]

I did take fertilaid for a few days,but thought it would be too many vitamins...

 

I am already taking ACES Plus Zinc and Coq10.

I will start taking Fertilaid and see if it can help....

 

I read at one place that L-carnitine can help,since i have ZERO motility i am very skeptical if these supplements can help.

 

Even if i had 1% moving i would have been optimistic.

 

Thanks for finding it out from your friend.

[TryingForOur2ndChild]

Hi Sid... my DHs last SA showed zero motility though could have been a one off as his motility has never been zero but it's not been good either. His issues have been from testicular torsion as a kid and has lower testosterone which he has been on clomid (typically a womans fertility drug) to assist with increasing his testosterone seeing as all typical meds for males will kill the swimmers completely.

Our naturopath suggested the following which after 3 months of taking it all his numbers had improved even before clomid was introduced... though keep in mind for us his count started off with less than 1 million swimmers so IVF was probably always going to be in the cards for us, but we were trying to see if we could increase it enough to do IUI instead which is way cheaper.

We ended up having to do IVF with ICSI and am waiting to do my first beta test this Sunday to see if we were successful.

 

Vitamins:

1. Fertilaid, MotilityBoost and CountBoost (we ordered on Fairhaven health website with no complaints at all)

2. Vitamin C

3. A good Omega

4. CoQ10 (we use the bioavailable which doesn't need to be converted in the system so you don't need as much but is more expensive)

5. Maca (black or purple is best but hard to find... typically the yellow is what you will find)

 

And that's his mini natural pharmacy..lol. The one thing my DH and I have joked about just to make light of things is that on our infertility journey we have felt like pill popping junkies with all the vitamins we take, but it has shown to make improvements for him as well as me... plus most fertility clinics will advise on taking vitamins anyways as it shows to improve overall outcomes.

 

If you have any other questions please don't hesitate to ask... this journey can be very stressful and shocking to take in at first but this forum has been a huge support system, and the unwavering patience everyone shows (even with probably my silliest of questions lol) has really helped through the process.

[sid8019]

Hi Tryingfor... I wish you lots of luck and hope you guys will be blessed with a healthy baby. Yes this journey is very stressful,although i am a man,i am desperate due to my wife's obsession to start a family. I have already given my wife very hard time when i was on antidepressants. Thanks for the wonderful tips and hope the vitamins,acupuncture does the job.

[TryingForOur2ndChild]

Sid - have they done a DNA fragmentation test on your swimmers? If not this might be a test worth inquiring about if you plan on doing IVF with ICSI.

[sid8019]

Hi.. Our first appointment with the RE went well...except it costed 600$ out of pocket that included an Ultra sound for my wifey. He said that even for zero motile sperm,he can cut the tail and do ICSI..as the sperm are viable. He was more concerned with the morphology and said 1% is pretty low. He said morphology is responsible for fertilization etc I have 66% head defects and he said for ICSI they need good looking sperm without head defects as head carries the DNA. He said when we are ready to do the IVF, he will perform further testing...and i think DNA Fragmentation was listed there as well. He said acupuncture and vitamins are all a scam and waste of money and it wont do anything...i was disappointed to hear those words. I would love to hear from some one who actually did these alternative therapies and found any success. That is SA1-2 showed zero motility and SA3 showed 50% Also he said something that he wants me to do Semen analysis at his office asap, as he doesnt trust the hospital results much. IVF is such a stressful process,not covered by insurance,no success guarantee...very hard phase of life. I wish i could take Clomid or something to improve motility..

[TryingForOur2ndChild]

Sadly the infertility journey is quite costly and stressful. I hear you about no guarantees... it's so tough to wrap our minds around dropping so much money with the chance of nothing at the end of it. It's definitely not a decision to be made lightly.

 

Are you at all located in Ontario or are you in the states?

The reason I ask is that unfortunately fertility clinics don't really deal with "man parts" as my clinic stated. Beyond doing a bit of blood work, DNA fragmentation and SA they focus mainly on the woman side of things. What you would need to do is get an appt with a Urologist that specializes in male factor infertility.... they are out there but be sure to do alot of research and get a good one. If you are around the Toronot area I can refer you to one that is a must see! Our first urologist was a total waste of time... he was old fashioned and refused to look outside the box. After much research we found the urologist in Toronto and it was so refreshing! See clomid is not a med yet approved for men as it is a fertility drug for women but this one as well as a few others (arimidex, etc) are ones they have been using to assist with male factor..... but again, it would all depend on what your hormone levels are.

The other thing you might want to get tested just to rule out is a urine test to ensure you don't have a UTI (urinary track infection).... now even family docs sometimes will just say "it's very rare... or you'd have symptoms". Well yes it is rare, but up to 40% of men have no symptoms of a UTI which can cause long term fertility issues if left untreated. We pushed for this with my DHs family doc only to find out he had an infection which took 2 rounds of antibiotics to cure, so we have no idea how long he had it. Though when we went to the urologist in Toronto with every appt he automatcially tested him for UTIs as standard procedure. I found the more I went into appts with researched info in had the docs seemed to take us more seriously. It's a tough road to travel and we are in an era where much of the info is at our fingertips with the internet, so I say be proactive with your health.... with you and your wife collecting info to be more informed in your appts you will unite as a stronger couple.

As for the acupuncture and vitamins being a scam.... it's all a matter of how one feels. I personally know my DHs SA inproved just by doing the vitamins and this was before we had even stepped foot in the fertility clinic, though our clinic was happy with the vitamins we were both on as well as my DHs urologist. Some vitamins they usually suggest to women if they are doing IVF, like CoQ10 for increasing quality of eggs for example. As for the acupuncture... at minimum it helps relieve stress which if you go the IVF route your wife will probably be thankful for, but I will say that I've been charting my cycles for years now and when I started acupuncture specific to fertility my charted cycles changed for the better even in the first month of treatment. All 3 of the fertility clinics we went to before choosing one agreed that acupuncture aids in the success, but again clinics vary so much...

I think overall I'd say choosing the path that will have the least regrets for you and your wife is the best way to go. If your instincts feel good about what the clinic is saying then go for it, but if you and your wife say "we will be paying alot for IVF, so what is the big deal spending a bit more on a few vitamins or acupuncture" then I'd say go for that.... being able to say you didn't have regrets will mean so much in the long run when it comes to this journey.

[Dreamofbaby]

sid8019, I feel for you and your wife! Infertility certainly is a very stressful emotional journey! My husband had a vasectomy and reversal 3 years later and his count was low as were his other numbers.

We did IVF\ICSI which did not work for us even though I had perfect looking embryos. We took a break and then decided to just try IUI's as they are much cheaper. None of them worked and our RE told us to try Fertil Pro for men http://www.yadtech.c...-pro-for-men-2/, she said there is controversy on whether or not vitamins help but to give it a try. After 4 months of him taking the fertile Pro, we did another IUI and I got to see a sample of his specimen under the microscope and I swear, there were twice as many little swimmers than I had seen the other times! Might be coincidence or maybe not? but I believe they helped. Our RE also said that she has seen wonders with men taking BioPQQ http://www.swansonvi...biopqq-120-caps. That being said I didn't get pregnant but we just tried once since then as we are both emotionally drained and have decided enough is enough and no more prodding and poking for us. We are going to leave things up to nature and hope for the best as we do both have one child each from a previous marriage.

Good luck!

 

p.s. you will find much love and support on this website!

[sid8019]

Thank you Guys.

 

Its indeed stressful,today i discussed this with my GP and he said adoption is better than IVF.

He was saying ethically if my culture accepts adoption,then prefer that option as well.

 

Tryingforourfirstchild...> I live in the state of illinois and i am not sure how to find a urologist who is ready to think out of box and has handled severe male infertility cases.

 

Dreamofbaby>> Thanks for your suggestions regarding vitamins,but may i ask you what was your DH's motility before and after taking these vitamins.

I am already taking ACES Plus Zinc and Coq10 and i have finished 1 bottle of fertilaid and motility boost.

To be honest i am not planning to add any more vitamins unless i know of some one with zero motility before the treatment and has significant change post treatment.

 

I am disappointed that even from IVF/ICSI perspective my case is pretty complex.

 

This site is absolutely wonderful and the support is incredible.

[TryingForOur2ndChild]

Sid - Wow... I have to be honest and say that I'm kind of surprised that your GP would say that adoption is better than IVF. They are two very different things and very personal choices attached with pros and cons to both options. I think ultimately it comes down to what is best for the couple and if they have an urge to have their own children. No matter what they are tough decisions that both partners need to feel content with the outcome. Adopting is not a solution to fertility issues but rather a solution for being a parent. Again there is absolutely nothing wrong with adopting.... I'm not sure what the adoption process is where you are but I know of couples here that from the time they recieved babies and had the entire adoption process approved it was over 2 years before they were legally their kids... which meant weekly house visits and no posting pics of the kids on facebook... lots of restrictions attached throughout the process which they don't regret but said that it was more stressful than the IVF process. If this is an avenue you and your wife are interested in it might be worth doing some investigation to find out the entire process from start to finish with regards to adoption.... that way you both can make an educated decision.

 

As for where to start with finding a good urologist that specializes in male infertility.... first off I'd start by asking your GP as well as the fertility clinic that you went to. I personally found more success in doing my own research but then I found one they deemed us with fertility issues they just threw us in the IVF category, which we ended up having to go to anyways but we wanted to exhaust all our options which in turn was good seeing as the meds are tending to my DHs overall health which is important.

Secondly you can start doing your own search online. Here is one of many sites that works for US and Canada where patients give their overall opinion on their experience.... remember, take some of it with a grain of salt but it's a good start: https://www.ratemds.com

 

Also, just remember that with taking vitamins it will take at least 3 full months to show any improvement. Most people don't realize that it takes that long for sperm to become fully mature. So in order to get any positive benefits of your vitamins you will need to wait it out least that long.

 

Lastly, with zero motile sperm it is fine for IVF with ICSI seeing as they end up injecting the sperm in the egg and cutting the tail off anyways (thats the ICSI part of it), so the sperm doesn't need to swim anywhere... the lab does all the work for it. Some men have such low counts that they have to do a TESE procedure which means they literally have to surgically go into the testicle to get sperm and even they end up with viable pregnancies, so your swimmers are still suitable for IVF. The DNA fragmentation test would show how much of your sperm is fragmented which would show better stats for IVF success.... our fertility clinic said if it came back 70% fragmented or higher they were going to recommend donor sperm, which luckily we haven't had to go that route.

 

No matter what, know all your options and do what's best for you, your wife and your situation because only you two can make that decision. Wishing you and your wife all the best!!

[sid8019]

Tryingforour1stchild, We needs lots of luck,thanks for explaining the ICSI process,although thats what RE said about cutting the tail etc but its good to know from others as well. I did ask the RE and he said if the hormones are in balance and there is no varicocele then its a waste of time visiting another urologist. He said be aggressive and move with IVF/ICSI. The single cycle is 9500+ meds and Multiple cycles in 22000+ Meds. Can we do single cycle ivf and then get the embryos frozen till we save for the next cycle?

[amp77]

You will have to check with your clinic but I think multiple cycles refers to fresh cycles.  If you freeze embryos, your next cycle would be a FET (or frozen embryo transfer) and is less expensive.  I believe that for the discounted multiple cycles, you normally have to pay up front but it would be different from clinic to clinic.  Keep in mind also that you have have nothing to freeze.  At my clinic, only 40% of people have anything to freeze.  I had nothing to freeze my first cycle but was able to freeze four on our second cycle which was a shock to us and the RE.

[Dreamofbaby]

Hi SID8019, I'm not sure what the numbers were as we didn't have a new SA done.

DH had an SA done back in 2010 when we first started at our clinic and his numbers were:

19 mil count (They like to see at least 20mil)

30% motil (they like to see 50%)

and 60% abnormal

Each time we had an IUI done, I got to see a smear of his sperm on a microscope and I saw some with 2 heads, some swimming in circles and there didn't appear to be as many as I thought I'd see. After taking the Fertil Pro + L-carnitine, for 4 months, when I saw the smear, I could see a difference. There were more and they were swimming like crazy, not in circles..LOL

I actually just got off the phone with my RE, and she advised my DH take the following:

NAC 600 MG,

COQ10 400 MG

Fertil Pro+L-Carnitine

She has personally see a difference from Men taking these supplements. She said she has one DH who had really poor motility and she actually advised the couple that IUI probably wouldn't work for them as the motility was so bad but after a few months on the NAC 600 mg, she saw a huge difference. She actually thought the wife brought in a sample from someone else! LOL

You can do a single IVF cycle and freeze the embryos and do FET's until all embryos are gone. FET will cost you about $1500 each cycle.  I think you should give yourself a few months of taking the supplements and then have another SA done. You need at least 3 months in between SA's to see if what you're taking is helping. If it is, then I would do the IVF\ICSI.

If you're going to seriously consider adoption, then I personally would do an IUI with donor sperm first.

Good Luck and keep us updated

[TryingForOur2ndChild]

You will have to check with your clinic but I think multiple cycles refers to fresh cycles.  If you freeze embryos, your next cycle would be a FET (or frozen embryo transfer) and is less expensive.  I believe that for the discounted multiple cycles, you normally have to pay up front but it would be different from clinic to clinic.  Keep in mind also that you have have nothing to freeze.  At my clinic, only 40% of people have anything to freeze.  I had nothing to freeze my first cycle but was able to freeze four on our second cycle which was a shock to us and the RE.

 

To add to what Amp said with regards to having embryos to freeze. There are alot of unknown factors which until IVF is performed you just won't know what the outcome will be. The one thing if you do go the IVF route is to ask them if they only do day-5 freezes or will they do day-3 freezes which is basically how many days they allow the embryo to grow out before they freeze it. There are higher success rates with day-5s.....though from day-3 to day-5 they allot that about 50% of the embryos will die off. It all depends on how you and your wife feels about it all. For our IVF we didn't end up with as many embryos as they were planning and my clinic initally said they will only freeze day-5s but when I enforced that I wanted them frozen at day-3 they did so even though we know that our odds might be a bit lower and that means we transfer 2 at a time which increases the twinning rate somewhat (which in Ontario they are trying to reduce) but I'm one of those that are of the mindset that I'd rather them be implanted and given a chance than die off in a lab seeing as there have been many viable pregnancies from day-3s and in fact that was all they used to use not all that long ago. I'm probably getting ahead of where you and your wife are but I also wanted to give you some additional information to possibly start researching on our joyous Dr. Google which many of us on here start doing alot of our own research so that you can be armed with info when going to your clinic, which I've found to have yeilded better results if I can talk more on a simular level as the clinic doctor.

 

Also I know my DHs urologist had him do the below blood work to rule out any issues and also had him do this for every f-up appt afterwards..... in the event you have an open minded GP that is willing to run these tests for you to see if you are running high/low in any particular areas this might help get the ball rolling if you do decide to see a urologist for.... the only thing we found is that GPs seem to say that as long as it's running in the 'normal' window they don't red flag it... but our urologist found anything that was particularly high or low normal he was addressing seeing as it was obvious something wasn't running optimally.

 

1. FSH

2. LH

3. Estradiol

4. Total prolactin

5. Testosterone

6. Free testosterone (totally different test than just testosterone)

7. Urine sample to check for a UTI

[sid8019]

I did ask the question about vitamins to the RE Several times and what he said was that they wont help when none of them are moving.

 

I think even if i had 10-15% motility he would have suggested fertil pro etc..

 

I am planning to go for  a test in october 2nd week when i will finish more than 2 months of my vitamins and acupuncture.

 

Fingers crossed.

[Dreamofbaby]

Fingers are crossed for you!!  Let us know if there's a change!  I'm hoping for you, there is!

You have me curious now, if the fertil pro etc. has helped my DH's numbers?

I think I will suggest an SA just to see what his numbers are now.

If he has it done, I'll let you know the updated numbers!

I still think you should try IVF\ICSI.

When we had our IVF done, the Dr. said none of my DH's sperm were able to fertilize the eggs on their own but every single one they did with ICSI did and I had grade A quality embryos! I didn't get pregnant, but that could be due to many other reasons. We didn't try IVF again because it's been a long 5 year journey for us and I'm just getting tired of it. Emotionally and Physically.

[sid8019]

That would be awesome to know,if the numbers changed for the better.

 

If they did,i will stop my current regimen and start the one your RE has suggested.

 

Yes,we will eventually try IVF/ICSI...getting mentally prepared for it.

[sid8019]

Tryingforourfirstchild..

 

I already did the below tests and those were all normal.

 

The urologist wished something was abnormal,so that he can give any medication.

 

1. FSH

2. LH

3. Estradiol

4. Total prolactin

5. Testosterone

6. Free testosterone (totally different test than just testosterone)

7. Urine sample to check for a UTI

 

The worst thing is what both urologist and RE say,that its a genetic thing...they are better off keeping mouth shut,if they dont know the reason.My brother has no such issues.