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Possible changes to IVF funding in Quebec?

quebec ivf funding

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#1 amylou6

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 06:09 PM

Hello, 

 

I am hearing on the news that our health minister is considering removing or altering the funding for IVF treatments. IF the gov't does decide to cancel the program, what is a reasonable expectation for the amount of time it would take to implement such a change?

 

I would think that it would require formal debate and thus, take some time, but perhaps it could be quicker. I know you can't see into a magic crystal ball and give exact predictions, but I was just wondering how complicated it would be for a government to make such a change. Is it possible to scrap the program over night?

 

Thanks for any thoughts or input you may have, 

 

Amy

 

 


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#2 ollie2013

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:11 PM

i am very surprised to read this ,,... because ontario, new brunswick and alberta are discussing following quebec's model

 

i do not believe it is possible to scrap a program overnight because of the fact that there are people with active protocols in place and how would that affect people in the middle of a cycle...

 

it would definitely take some time and a vote would have to take place for sure, i am going to look up on this


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me 26, dh 32

ttc for almost 3 years

one ectopic pregnancy, lost one tube- 2013

one miscarriage- 2014

poor egg quality, unstable hormone levels. AMH dropped from 4 to 1.5 in 4 months.. had it retested and came back at 1.4

RE predicts that i will go through menopause around age 30..27 or 28. Suggests one round  of ivf and then it is time to move onto another option.

1st ivf booked to begin in september

Sept 17- B/w and U/S, Starting Stimulation

Clinic Error and IVF cycle cancelled in October- took some time to think about my options

 

November- Moving onto donor eggs-

donor #1 selected through little miracles

Dec 29- Lupron Injection

Jan 22- Estrace Started

Estimated Retrieval day for donor is Feb 6. 5 days into the cycle, donor was found to have cocaine and marijuana in her bloodstream- cycle cancelled.. heartbroken and very disappointed

Donor egg cycle round 2 - let's hope things go well this time!

Donor #2 selected... Retrieval in April!


#3 MandyA

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 10:33 PM

Bump?

Fiance & I just got back from Montreal and loved it.  We are having male factor fertility issues and IVF clinic here in Halifax gave us a 40% chance with IVF+ICSI.  We're considering moving if we can line up employment, etc. but it will be less worth it not to have this available.


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#4 Pebbles

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 05:50 AM

They should be making their decision soon and everybody here is waiting anxiously what the outcome will be....for now it seems that they will be cutting it with respect to income. We shall see....

 

...but yes, Montreal is a great city to live in



#5 MandyA

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 08:31 PM

http://montrealgazet...ould-be-looming

Devastating.  cry.gif


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#6 MandyA

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 09:00 PM

http://www.ctvnews.c...-back-1.2090040

So that's that.  I think we can prove we need it, but I feel bad for women who couldn't find Mr. Right, and the same sex couples who have to pay out the wazoo. :(


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#7 MandyA

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 01:56 PM

Yep.  Here is the nail in the coffin.  Pending the bill passing, but I don't doubt it will, the ones who will vote are the fertile majority.

They are not funding it anymore.  But they will force women under 37 to only transfer one embryo at a time, and they can have one more cycle covered if they're over 37.  

The comments are destroying me, except for one, and someone got blasted, as no doubt I will when mine get posted.  

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   cry.gif 

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...-bill-1.2853715


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#8 KennyandFooty

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 03:41 PM

The other avenue open for discussion (or not as the case may be) is in regards to those of us who were able to freeze embryos during a funded cycle.  What are the rights to those embryos and the cost? 

 

I anticipate that, with such steep modifications to the program, there will eventually be a time duration to use up your "free" cycles/embryos and then that'll be that.  I'm watching closely for any further information on this...but sounds like Bill 20 will go to vote around Christmas. 

 

Also, not sure if you've all seen, but there is an online petitition in place asking to keep the existing program as it is/was instituted in August 2010.  Here is the link: :https://www.assnat.q...4989/index.html


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Me: 33 DH: 31
TTC 4+ years
Asthmatic - Bricanyl & Symbicort daily
Hydrosalpinges --> Bilateral Tubal removal


IVF#1 - September 2011 - Short protocol - Cancelled/Ectopic pregnancy; Tubal removal (October)
IVF#2 - March/April 2012 - Modified Microdose Flare Protocol - BFN - 3 frozen blasts
FET#1 - July 2012 - Cancelled; zero survive thaw
IVF#3 - October/November 2012 - Modified Microdose Flare Protocol - BFN - 3 frozen blasts
Hysteroscopy and Biopsy February 2013 - All results normal

FET#2 - BFP - March/April 2013 - EDD December 25, 2013

2 frosties waiting

January 1 - Our beautiful baby boy arrived after an emergency induction.  Completely in love! <3


#9 YellowBee

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 04:34 PM

If the Bill is voted around Christmas, this means that not many women will have a chance to use it for the reminder of time since most clinics (if not all) are closing for the Holidays. This sucks and I feel very bad for those families paying the crazy Qc tax rates and not getting anything in exchange (someone could say that there are many social programs in Qc to justify the taxes, but yeah, an infertile couple loves to pay the school bus tax!).

 

As for the FETs, I agree with you, Kenny, that the rational thinking would be to go with your model, but listening to the Health Minister makes me think he believes we've already got too much break and maybe pay for our FETs for a change. Fat douche bag.


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#10 MandyA

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 06:03 PM

The other avenue open for discussion (or not as the case may be) is in regards to those of us who were able to freeze embryos during a funded cycle.  What are the rights to those embryos and the cost? 

I read somewhere that anyone who is currently in a cycle, and presumably any frosties associated with it, will be honoured from before the bill, whenever it's passed.


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#11 babydream1

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 02:12 PM

Hello ladies,

 

i emailed a girl at the ministere de sante de quebec asking when do they expect the bill to pass ....and this was her response to me - definitely means these clinics will be so packed :

 

Bonjour Mme Vizioli,

En réponse au questionnement que vous m'avez adressé hier, je vous informe qu'il y a des étapes à franchir avant d'en arriver à l'entrée en vigueur de la loi 20. Celle-ci pourrait, sous toute réserve, être adoptée aux environs du printemps 2015.

Sincères salutations,

 


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#12 KennyandFooty

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 02:23 PM

Wow...that's...soon.


Me: 33 DH: 31
TTC 4+ years
Asthmatic - Bricanyl & Symbicort daily
Hydrosalpinges --> Bilateral Tubal removal


IVF#1 - September 2011 - Short protocol - Cancelled/Ectopic pregnancy; Tubal removal (October)
IVF#2 - March/April 2012 - Modified Microdose Flare Protocol - BFN - 3 frozen blasts
FET#1 - July 2012 - Cancelled; zero survive thaw
IVF#3 - October/November 2012 - Modified Microdose Flare Protocol - BFN - 3 frozen blasts
Hysteroscopy and Biopsy February 2013 - All results normal

FET#2 - BFP - March/April 2013 - EDD December 25, 2013

2 frosties waiting

January 1 - Our beautiful baby boy arrived after an emergency induction.  Completely in love! <3


#13 babydream1

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 02:30 PM

Yes it is very soon....hopefully there is some delay and it ends being later than that because unfortunately the way things are going with this government I really don't see them changing their minds about it....so frustrating....not even wanting to help parents have more than child tax credits have been in place for so many years now......completely insane.... 


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#14 YellowBee

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 03:40 PM

I can't believe I am saying this, but I miss Pauline. She was crazy, stupid and inefficient. This government works too much for a government, what's their problem?
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#15 MandyA

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 09:55 PM

This.  ALL of this:

http://montrealgazet...ems-doctors-say

And prepare for waiting lists:

http://montrealgazet...f-medicare-list
 

Editorial: New IVF rules are too restrictive:

http://montrealgazet...too-restrictive

This one is from a while ago:
Opinion: There are compelling medical reasons to publicly fund IVF treatments

http://montrealgazet...-ivf-treatments


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#16 Anaďs

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 12:21 PM

Yellowbee: I am laughing my head off at what you said. you miss Pauline!

I kind of do too now!


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TTC since Dec. 09
Me (35) him (30)
Unexplained infertility but have only one ovary (lost right to dermoid cyst in Nov. 07) and he has low morphology (5%)

July 10 - Consultation at OFC
All test results normal (did not do Kruger test or AMH test) and was told to try for another 6 months
FSH around 6, antral foli count 9 (on the left)

Dec 10 - Asked to be transferred to MTL (OVO) from OFC
April 11 - Saw Dr. Jamal, antral folli count 8 (on the left) and AMH test show low ovarain reserve (due to a single ovary). Given Clomid for two cycles, had bad reaction (very cranky) and BFN. Dr. Jamal suggested Natural IVF without stimulation. Hated OVO dearly (long wait time, extreme lack of organization, nurses, etc). Googled and found MFC. Consultation booked in Sept. 11

Sept. 11 - Saw Dr. Sophia at MFC. She suggests a standard IVF.
Sept. 11 - Learned that private insurance thru work have coverage up to 20K for IVF (Thank goodness!)
Decided to go for 1st trial at OFC given proximity.

IVF #1 (Oct 11) at OFC (Dr. Haebe) - Puregon 400 IU for 9 days. 9 leading follicles (and 8 smaller ones), which resulted in 5 eggs (but one degenerated). Only 2 fertilized thru ICSI (embryo quality second best and average). Day 3 transfer of 2 embryos, which resulted in BFN

IVF #2 (Nov 11) at MFC - Puregon 300 IU and Menopure 75 IU for 10 days. 8 leading follicles (and some smaller ones). egg collection Nov. 16/11. 7 eggs collected out of 8 follies. 6 are mature and ALL SIX FERTILIZED!!! 5 day transfer of 1 blast Nov. 21/11. Beta scheduled Dec. 2nd 1st Beta 10dp5dt 287. 2nd beta scheduled Dec. 5th 2nd Beta 14dp5dt 1,524

1st U/S Dec. 19th (6wks & 6 days): heartbeat measured at 137bpm, baby measuring 7.2mm, cervix measured at 32.9mm

 

August 12, 2012: A beautiful baby girl born at 11:21 pm measuring 8 lbs 3 ounces/53 cm long

 

Trying for Number 2

October 7, 2013 - CD1

October 9, 2013 - First consultation

Start stimulation Friday October 11 (Puregon 300 & Menopur 75) for 10 days

Last us on October 21, 2013 7 leading follicles - Trigger shot tonight (Ovidral)

Retrieval October 23, 2013 - 6 eggs retrieved

Ferti report October 24, 2013 - 4 mature eggs and only 2 fertilized

At this point, I am losing hope.

Oct 25, 2013 - Surprisingly Dr. M. wants us in for 5 day transfer

ET October 28, 2013: one young blastocyst to transfer

2WW

8dp5dt HPT Positive yahoo.gif

Some spotting on 9dp5dt and 10dp5dt huh.png

Beta scheduled November 8,2013

1st beta 11dp5dt 106

2nd beta 14dp5dt 525.6

Viability scan scheduled Nov. 21, 2013

Viability scan shows fetus behind schedule by a couple of days

Repeat U/S

Discovered on Dec 10/2013 that fetus stopped growing at 7wk4days (Missed miscarriage)

 

2.2.

CD1 March 29. First consult on March 31. Same protocol.

Stimulated for 8 days trigger April 8. ER April 10. Out of 8 follicles, 6 eggs retrieved. Only 1 egg was mature & fertilized. Clinic recommends Day 2 transfer. We declined Day 2 transfer given this may be a complete waste.

Dr.M. understood our concern & agreed. Booked for a Day 5 transfer (but will be a miracle if this one embryo makes it to Day 5). Dr. M. advised that the embryo on Day 2 is 4 cell grade 1. So there is little hope.

Ok no call until Tuesday, which means we are going in for a transfer on Day 5. ET on April 15. Transferred an excellent quality blastocyst. Now 2WW. Blood test April 28. BFN

 

2.3.

CD1 August 18. First consult on August 19. Spoke with Dr. M about two wishes - minimum 10 day stimulation & 5 day transfer. Stimulated for 11 days. ER September 4. Out of 9 follicles, 6 eggs, 4 mature and all fertilized. Dr. M called and suggest double Day 3 transfer. However, DH veto a double transfer. Sticking to Day 5 transfer. ET September 9. Suprisingly out of 4 embryos on Day 3, 3 made to blastocysts. Transfer 1 Day 5 blastocyst. Shocking call the next day saying two left over embryos were good enough for freezing. 2ww Turned out to be a chemical pregnancy

 

2.3.1.

FET CD1 Sept 27 First consultation Sept 30 Oct 16 Transferred two blastocysts 2ww

Started nausea 3dp5dt it can`t be this early POAS 5dp5dt readable BFP! Wow

7dp5dt POAS show dark test line (never had such a strong positive)

Worried about risk of multiples

11dp5dt 1st beta at 382.8 13dp5dt 2nd beta at 850

Viability scan booked Nov 11th (6wk 4days)

Viability scan at 6w and 8w are both fine. Now graduated to OB.

NT scan in December 2015: all is good

Anotomy scan in Feb. 2015

 

 

 

 


#17 MrsBR

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 07:48 PM

Any idea how much we will get back for taxes on ivf medical expenses. I've never claimed anything too high before but thiss years medical expenses are in the 25K+!
1 year...6 fresh ivf's...so many failed attempts...we finally got a BFP on Nov 27, 2014. What finally worked: co culture, G - CSF, IVIG, prednisone .Nov 27 Beta 112 Nov 29 Beta 291 Dec 16 Saw 2 flickering heartbeats on ultrasound!!!! (from a single blastocyst transfer)Looking like identical twins for us...wowDec 22 control u/s to make sure the babies are growing. Only 1 H/B found. 1 twin didn't make it. Just 1 baby for us. Jan 23 NT scan and blood work came back all normal! As per our amazing technician...70% chance it's a girl!Mar 18th 20 week anatomy scan shows a perfectly healthy baby girl!
Madison arrives on July 17 2015 at 37 weeks 2 days! 10 fingers and 10 toes...perfect in every way.


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#18 babydream1

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 10:34 PM

Firstly congrats MrsBR so happy it finally worked after so many attempts...wishing you all the best.

 

For the provincial income taxes you will get a credit of 50% up to maximum of 20K of fees and for federal ( I need to confirm) but I believe you can claim them as medical expenses....hope this helps


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#19 MrsBR

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 12:38 PM

Thanks! Look like a nice check to buy baby stuff next spring then!
  • KennyandFooty likes this
1 year...6 fresh ivf's...so many failed attempts...we finally got a BFP on Nov 27, 2014. What finally worked: co culture, G - CSF, IVIG, prednisone .Nov 27 Beta 112 Nov 29 Beta 291 Dec 16 Saw 2 flickering heartbeats on ultrasound!!!! (from a single blastocyst transfer)Looking like identical twins for us...wowDec 22 control u/s to make sure the babies are growing. Only 1 H/B found. 1 twin didn't make it. Just 1 baby for us. Jan 23 NT scan and blood work came back all normal! As per our amazing technician...70% chance it's a girl!Mar 18th 20 week anatomy scan shows a perfectly healthy baby girl!
Madison arrives on July 17 2015 at 37 weeks 2 days! 10 fingers and 10 toes...perfect in every way.


Lilypie First Birthday tickers

#20 MandyA

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 12:08 AM

So the Hope March was Saturday and there are articles around about that if you know where to look.

There are going to be hearings and the leader of ACIQ, I think, will be bringing the petition and trying to convince them to keep the program as is or try to work out a compromise.  The Hope March in Quebec is the 22nd.

The bill is expected to pass on March 25th. Two days before my 36th birthday.

The big sticking point is the over 42 being illegal to get it, even if you use donor eggs, even if you pay, and you could face legal issues if you go out of province.  Health professionals also could face legal issues if they recommend you do that.  Draconian.

But now they are also getting women(!) to sign a declaration that they have been having sex for three years (before age 35), becauuse Barrette pulls a statistic out of his ass that 95% of infertile couples conceive within three years.  They can only go on good faith, though, of course.

I also read that frozen embryos will still be able to be transferred without charge for six months after the bill is passed.  So, like, the end of September.


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#21 ociwoman

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 09:31 AM

Just to clarify, nobody can stop a person from seeking medical treatment outside Quebec or in another country as long as they are willing to pay for it themselves and the provider is willing to accept them as a patient. I believe the proposed legislation seeks to prevent Quebec doctors from being allowed to refer Quebec patients to other provinces. That's a bit different from patient's seeking their own treatment elsewhere that they would pay for themselves... 

 

Also, regarding the Quebec tax credit for fertility, I believe the proposed legislation is seeking to change that as well. So people should submit their Quebec taxes asap, just in case! If this legislation passes, I hope they don't make the (reduction/change) to tax credit retroactive! Sigh...



#22 MandyA

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 09:40 AM

Yeah, it looks like it's going to be between 20% & 80% depending on income.

I don't think it will affect 2014's taxes, meaning even if it passes on the 25th, you can still claim anything eligible as if it were still now. Clear as mud? :)

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#23 babydream1

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 10:26 AM

I wonder if this also means that portion of meds will no longer be paid for my government and insurance companies any longer.

 

How does this government expect to increase the amount of citizens if they are doing everything to discourage the people who are having difficulty to have babies to have. And on top of it all i think they still want to maintain the quota of embryos, so you want us to pay and than you also want to control how are IVF goes!!! absolutely ridiculous



#24 ociwoman

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 10:44 AM

I don't think the original overall goal of the ivf program was to increase the Quebec birth rate (although it could have had that effect). I think they were trying to help infertile couples, while at the same time reduce the number (and costs associated with) multiple births. They figured they would save millions by insisting on single embryo transfers thereby reducing the number of multiples being born. They DID reduce the rate of multiples and the costs, but they also significantly reduced the ivf success rates in doing so. This resulted in more ivf cycles being required in order to conceive. (Their own research demonstrates this.) Add to that, the fact that they totally underestimated the demand for ivf, and you have an underfunded program that many tax payers never supported anyway...  

 

In a similar vein, the province also introduced the paternity leave for men via Quebec's Parental insurance program. This is up to 5 additional weeks of paid leave for men only. Just like with the ivf program, Quebec completely underestimated how many men would actually apply for the 5 weeks of leave with pay, and they completely blew their budget on that point too.

 

Both programs could have worked - if they had been better planned and the realities of infertility and actual need had been better understood.

 

My fear is that Ontario is probably revisiting their own concepts for the program now that Quebec is pulling out.


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#25 MandyA

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 01:49 PM

Thousands of viable embryos in limbo if Quebec changes IVF program

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ogram-1.2999252


Highlights:


Quebec's publicly-funded IVF program started in 2010 and (Dr. William) Buckett says it was celebrated as a model for other countries.


The generous program funded 3 cycles of IVF and resulted in thousands of babies. A single embryo transfer by IVF also dramatically reduced multiple births, which can result in pre-term babies and health complications.

Now Buckett says he's getting calls from from those same colleagues asking him if the changes are for real.

"Honestly, I think it would be a shame, to use the expression, to throw the baby out with the bathwater," he said. "There are ways to reduce costs without overall affecting access."

Buckett thinks there are ways to find savings without dismantling the whole system. He'd like to see some level of publicly funded, medicare covered IVF continue.
 

"Perhaps cap funded cycles — have an age limit for that. That's different than not doing IVF at all at a certain age," he said. 

Guidelines that spell out what type of tests should be done and what course of treatment to try would also make sense, he added. 

As the current bill stands, women who are over the age of 42 would be banned from accessing IVF, even with donor eggs.

Buckett hopes that doesn't stay in the final bill. 

"If we look at using donor eggs for somebody who is otherwise healthy and good candidates to be pregnant, using donor eggs for someone who is 43 or 44 is not a problem at all. There is no medical reason not to do so," Buckett said.
 

_______________________________________________________________________________________

The government is offering a sliding scale of tax credits for one IVF cycle, but Buckett says it's not realistic.

"The biggest tax credit is for a couple whose collective income is $50,000 or less. The reality of a couple living on $50,000 or less is they are unlikely to borrow or have in their savings the $8,000 to $10,000 to pay before getting the tax credit back," Buckett said.


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