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breastfeeding pumping breast milk multiples singletons

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#1 frostedlemon

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:47 AM

I'm starting this thread to hopefully give those who are needing information or support for breastfeeding to come and ask questions and for those who have had success at it to discuss and help others out. This is not intended to be a boob nazi group, so even if you supplement with formula or ended up going with formula totally in the end, your input is welcome! Breastfeeding is hard and I found that the support I got from others was invaluable in me continuing.

There is also a thread about specifically breastfeeding multiples in the PG after IVF forums with some great information. This thread is not to replace that or to not include those with multiples, but there are unique challenges for singles versus multiples, plus I figure having more than one discussion in different places would be helpful, hopefully.

We've been discussing some aspects of breastfeeding in another thread, I'm going to try and transport some of the messages from there to here when I get a chance since I think there is some useful information there.

Until then, please ask questions if you have them, or give some advice (what was the best advice you can give? what was the worst advice you were given?), or share your experiences!

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#2 Ope

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 11:28 AM

I think it is a great idea, and I think that multiple breastfeeding thread is great. A few times I felt the urge to write on it, but since I had singleton I didn't want butt in ;)
Almost all of the problem they have written about it applies to singleton too.
1. For example nipple confusion, can make breastfeeding a big fat failure. I had a friend who is lactation consultant, so I got a lot of support and advice from her.
I had full term 40 weeks vaginal delivery , Ds was on my tits within 1 hr from birth. His latch was great, and my milk came in within 2 days, and my supply was plenty. So everything was perfectly peachy, until I went out a few times for Christmas shopping leaving the baby for dh with pumped breastmilk in a bottle.
Ds was not even 4 weeks old yet, and he got the bottle only 3 times within a same weekend.
After that he didn't wanted to latch anymore. He turned his head away and cried of hunger, but won't take the breast. It took us a whole week to get back where we were before.
After that Dh was only allowed to cup feed him. It is actually not hard, and we did it before just to try out. Here is a picture of Dh cup feeding our 1 week old:
Posted Image

2. Also I wanted to say breastfeeding takes time , sometimes a LOT of time. Listen to your guts! Some babies eat fast , some babies eat slow.
Ds was the champion of slow eating.(Now he is 3 yr old, and still the slowest eating kid i know). A breastfeeding session was at least 45 minutes long, but often lasted 60 minutes or more. Although I only had one baby changing diaper + BF session took 65-75 minutes. Since he ate 8-10 times a day , just this took 10-11 hr per day of my time. So prepare not to cook/ clean or do anything else in the first 6-8 week. The best preparation for the baby is get HELP. Cook ahead and make sure your freezer is full of ready to eat nutrition food. Ask family/friends to bring you cooked dinner. If no family/ friends live close by, hire help for the first few months.

3.Many books suggest to change the diaper after BF, but I find the opposite works better.
When Ds waked up, I changed the diaper first then BF. BF is a hard work for the baby, and after that Ds was so tired and fall asleep, so I just put back to the crib.
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Me: 32 , tubes open, no endo, regular ovulation, all hormones are good, 3rd day FSH 5.3 , antral follicle count is 12, only problem is my weight BMI: 30

IVF/ ICSI #1: 2008 February -McGill, Montreal
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Dh :39 morphology went up to 4%, we meet the IUI cutoff! count are fluctuating from 30 to 105 million, motility is great. Caryotyping is normal
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IUI #2: Edmonton, 2011 February, Clomid 50mg (x5), 30 mil, 57% motile, grade 3: BFN
IUI #3: Edmonton, 2011 March, Clomid 50mg (x5), 88 mil , 49% motile, grade 4: BFN
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#3 conky

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 11:47 AM

Ope, the diaper change before makes sense to me, especially if baby is being woken up to feed. The diaper change would help to make him more alert and ready for feeding, I would think, whereas the feeding itself would eventually make him want to sleep again.

#4 sharlene

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 11:51 AM

You're right, Ope! I almost forgot about that - it was mentioned that diapers should be changed after feeding - but that didn't work here, either - for 2 reasons - the BFing was tiring and DS fell asleep at the end - but also, in the very early days, he was often too tired to start eating - so changing him first woke him up enough to latch on well. Gosh I forgot about that - he's now 10 months old and a pro at nursing - unless we are out somewhere - then he can get so distracted that he won't settle down to eat. Of course I try to cover him and block the outside stimulation but he thinks that is a game and pulls down the cover.

It's also true - I read through the multiples BFing thread - yes, it's more of a challenge (a huge one) to position two heads/babies - but all the other issues are the same. But they like separate threads for multiples and this will be much easier to find for everyone else. I wonder if the really new Moms will come look here - I thought of this area as for more established Moms when I had my newborn. Have to run - hope people realize this is here.

#5 sharlene

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 11:53 AM

Ope, the diaper change before makes sense to me, especially if baby is being woken up to feed. The diaper change would help to make him more alert and ready for feeding, I would think, whereas the feeding itself would eventually make him want to sleep again.


We were posting at the same time! Exactly - but there is also a reflex so that the baby empties his/her bowels during feeding to make room for the new stuff - so there is often a poop during BFing! (especially in a newborn) - hence you can go through a LOT of diapers in the first few weeks.

#6 alanna

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 11:53 AM

I think it's wonderful to have another breastfeeding thread! It is such an emotional issue and we need to get as much support as we can get! I wrote a long post about some of the issues I had on the 'Breastfeeding Multiples' post. I hope it's okay that I post the link to it here.

Me (37) DH (36)

ivf w/icsi cycle- Apr./May 2010
Apr. 26 - ER! 12 eggs retrieved!
May 1 - ET!! 5dt of 2 beautiful blasts! 4 frosties!
May 6 - very faint +hpt (5dp5dt)!!
May 10 - BFP!!!! - BETA#1 - 9dp5dt - 381 !!!!! Sooo thankful!
May 12 - BETA#2 - 11dp5dt - 654 - Doubling Time of 61hrs (rose 86% in 48hrs).
June 1 - (7wks) 1st u/s - We saw 2 perfect little beans with strong heartbeats!!!
Sept. 2 - (20wks) On hospital bed rest due to placental abruption. 3 blood transfusions. Very scary but the babies are fine. Thank God!
Sept. 3 - We are having 2 little boys!!!
Oct. 27 - (28wks) Finally home on bed rest after 8 wks in the hospital!!! Babies are doing well but cervix is shortening.
Dec. 23 - (36wks 2 days) Last official u/s! Both babies estimated to be just under 6lbs each! Cervix at 0.7cm. Go cervix go!
Jan. 4, 2011 - After 4 months on bed rest we made it to 38wks and my scheduled c-section!!! Welcome to the world beautiful boys!!!

FET #1 April/May 2014 - Bfn.

FET #2 July/August 2014 - 1 lone 3AB frostie left in the freezer.
-embryo did not survive the thaw.

No more treatments for us. Feeling blessed that we had success. We're going to enjoy being a family of four.


#7 sohopeful

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 12:13 PM

Frosted lemon I'm glad you started this! I read through the multiples one too but didn't want to post because I only have one. There is sooo much great info on that one though. My baby had a great latch, but my nipples still got a bit sore in the first couple weeks. I tried using Lanolin on them and my excellent breastfeeder all of a sudden started to freak out and refuse the breast until I washed the lanolin off. If there was even a hint of lanolin his latch changed, he would only latch on lightly and pull off over and over. My doctor said that not wearing a top at night (or a bra) is just as effective and she was right. My sore nipples/chapping cleared up right away. She also suggested that during growth times when the baby feeds very often to not wear a bra and to just wear a loose shirt at home to avoid chapped nipples. Coconut oil works too and my baby never refuses to BF after that.
April 2010 IVF with ICSI #1
Me 29 DH 39
03/20- started BCP
04/01- started meds
04/29- ER 11 eggs retrieved
04/30- 11 eggs mature & fertilized
05/01- 10 embryos
05/04- 5dt of 1 blastocyst. 4 frosties.
05/11- BFP on HPT!!!!!
05/14-BETA #1 65
m/c at 5 1/2 wks.

June/July 2010 FET #1
07/12- ET of 1 blast. Still have 3 frosties waiting
07/22- beta - BFN :(

July/August FET # 2
08/16 - ET of 2 blasts. Still have 1 more frostie.
08/27 - beta 11dp5dt 281
08/30 - beta 14dp5dt 1185
09/01 - beta 16dp5dt 2552
09/13 - u/s - 1 heartbeat
11/26 - u/s - We are having a BOY!!!
EDD May 4, 2011
Baby boy born April 30, 2011 @ 1:14am. 7 lb 8 oz.

#8 frostedlemon

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 05:35 PM

I was wondering the same thing about it being hidden, but I'm hoping that if people are looking for help with breastfeeding, they'll do a search and this will come up for them. I posted in this forum when I was pregnant and needed info from people who knew what they were doing, so I'm hoping others will do the same. Or maybe they'll find the multiples thread and can be directed over here if this is a more appropriate place as well.

I change him after I feed him most of the time because a lot of the time feeding him makes him fill his diaper, so unless it's been a while since I last changed it or I'm using the diaper change to wake him up in order to eat, we do it after he's done since it's less likely to need an additional one. I actually find it helps him eat more because it wakes him up and then he'll often eat off the other side, while if I do it before he falls asleep after one side and won't eat from the other. This is particularly important at night when I really want him to sleep as long as possible. He'll fall asleep on the first side, I'll change him and he'll wake up, then he'll eat from the second side and when he's done I put him back to bed. It also prevents what happens during the day sometimes when I don't need to change him after I finish feeding him, where he falls asleep and then the second I put my boob away he wakes up and wants more, despite me trying to wake him up to eat more before I decide to pack up.

I talked about this on one of the discussions about BFing, but I'll repeat it here. When he was first born, I used to have this whole routine to wake him up at night to keep eating. They always say you should rub their backs and touch them with cold cloths and tickle them, etc to wake them up and keep eating, but none of those work for him. Touching him with cold cloths would make him turn to look at it (yes, even at just a few days old!) and nothing else would actually keep him awake. So at night I would feed him on one side, then take his sleeper off and put him back on the same side. When he fell asleep there, I'd change his diaper and put him on the second side. Then he'd fall asleep and I'd put his sleeper back on, and he'd eat on the second side and then go to bed because he'd be totally out.

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#9 frostedlemon

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 06:11 PM

Breaking up my replies so it's not one huge novel.

1) I was super terrified of nipple confusion. They recommend that you don't introduce a bottle (unless it can't be helped, as in the case of NICU time or whatever) until they've established a good latch with breastfeeding to help avoid confusion. There are also some nipples that are designed to use the same motions as a nipple does. We use the Medela Calma nipple (it came with my breast pump) for the few times he's had a bottle, which is supposed to not flow at all unless he's sucking (the same way as he does on my nipple) so he hopefully doesn't get lazy. Some babies find that the flow is too fast with it, but my flow is so high that it's probably harder for him on the bottle because my milk flows without him doing anything once he's started it, or at least for a while ;)

2) Length of time feeding varies from baby to baby. I was worried at first because he was only eating for 5-10 minutes at a time, sometimes a bit longer but never longer than 20 minutes at a stretch. I thought maybe he wasn't getting enough or something, but some babies are more efficient than others and some mothers have faster or slower flow. I think he is very efficient and I have fast flow, plus I suspect especially at first he was a bit of a snacker. Remember their tummies are really really small at first, so they don't need very much to fill it up. That's why they eat more frequently at first.

Here's the big thing to remember: If your baby is not crying after a feed and has fallen asleep and they're making the right number of diapers, then they're getting enough, regardless of how much time it takes. I found it really helpful at first to keep track of everything: how long he ate, what side he ate on, how many diapers he made and what was in them and what colour. Everyone will be asking you all that so it's easier to be able to give them a definite answer and it will all start to blur together very quickly. I used an iPhone app called Total Baby which cost $4.99 but was worth every penny in the first week or so, especially for the feeding because I was so worried about it and we had quite a difficult time at the beginning.

On our... second or third night, I was up trying to feed the baby. He had no idea what he was doing, I had no idea what I was doing, I hadn't figured out how to coordinate all our various body parts, I was high on hormones (or maybe low on them?) and quite sore from the birth, it was 3am (it's always worse in the middle of the night) and I was exhausted (I think I'd gotten three hours of sleep in the last 48 hours due to the birth and adrenaline and all), my nipples were killing me (I had sensitivity issues before I tried using them to breastfeed), and my husband was snoring away in bed. I'd fed him, but he kept acting like he was still hungry but wouldn't latch on properly and kept screaming. I was crying because I was sure he was starving and I was never going to get the hang of it and I'd have to formula feed him after all because I just couldn't do it (I desperately wanted to breasfeed, and I definitely didn't want to have to give that up because of my incompetence - low supply issues would have upset me, but there's nothing you can do about that) and I was failing him and I was a horrible mother and all this (as I said, it's always worse in the middle of the night). My husband got up (finally!) and I had a big meltdown and he talked me off the edge (figuratively). Then when I looked at my phone, I realized that he'd actually fed for 20 minutes already. 5 or 6 minutes at a time, but 20 minutes total. In all the frustration of having to relatch him all the time (with great difficulty every time) and exhaustion and the baby sending me mixed messages (or me not being able to decode them properly), I was focusing so much on what wasn't happening that I forgot totally about what did happen. Husband took baby downstairs and sent me to bed, baby calmed down pretty much immediately and went to sleep.

So yeah. Keep track because it can make you feel a lot better and you have concrete evidence for doing well even when you don't remember it.

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#10 sharlene

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 06:22 PM

Frosted lemon I'm glad you started this! I read through the multiples one too but didn't want to post because I only have one. There is sooo much great info on that one though. My baby had a great latch, but my nipples still got a bit sore in the first couple weeks. I tried using Lanolin on them and my excellent breastfeeder all of a sudden started to freak out and refuse the breast until I washed the lanolin off. If there was even a hint of lanolin his latch changed, he would only latch on lightly and pull off over and over. My doctor said that not wearing a top at night (or a bra) is just as effective and she was right. My sore nipples/chapping cleared up right away. She also suggested that during growth times when the baby feeds very often to not wear a bra and to just wear a loose shirt at home to avoid chapped nipples. Coconut oil works too and my baby never refuses to BF after that.


We had the same problem with the lanolin! I was still in the hospital and couldn't figure it out - DS had a good latch, I got sore, used lanolin and then no more latch. I was stymied - it took my partner to suggest that maybe it was the cream - I still doubted it cause the LC said the lanolin was fine, the baby wouldn't mind it. Sure enough - wash it off and all was well (more of less). I think they should add a warning to the label: "Some babies do not like the taste of this cream - it may have to be washed off thoroughly before they will latch." Would have saved me some heartache.

I actually find that my nipples rub up against a shirt more if I'm not wearing a bra - but with a pad in place and then a bra, they stay put and don't chafe at all. The coconut oil sounds interesting.

Okay - this has nothing to do with BFing - but since you touched on it, and it irks me - why are Moms of multiples okay posting in "singleton" threads but Moms of OAATs (one-at-a-times) are afraid to post in multiples threads?

#11 frostedlemon

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 07:38 PM

Interesting! I use a nipple shield still (that's another topic I can write a novel about!) so he doesn't directly touch the lanolined area, so I wasn't even aware it could be an issue! That could be useful since I'm not sure I would have thought of that when I was first starting - I probably would have gotten upset and blamed myself.

NO WAY am I not wearing a bra! My nipples are still really sensitive (my main reason for continuing with the shield despite him not needing it anymore) and I find having everything supported and as stationary as possible plus covered and protected by breast pads is essential for my comfort. Plus my leakage issues would mean I'd have a wet shirt and/or milk dripping down my front.

And good question. I never really understood why there are usually due date groups and then other due date groups for the same dates for multiples. When there are so many multiples around here, why bother having two groups to keep up with? I feel like a minority with just a single! (not that I'm saying it shouldn't be there and maybe I'd understand if I were having more than one, but I don't get it from here where I am).

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#12 SandraDee

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:58 PM

why are Moms of multiples okay posting in "singleton" threads but Moms of OAATs (one-at-a-times) are afraid to post in multiples threads?


I for one would welcome any advice the singleton moms might want to add to the multiples thread. As someone said previously, things like poor latch and nipple confusion are universal. No one should feel afraid to post in the multiples forum.

The main reason I recommended a seperate thread was to gather some of the twin/triplet success stories in one place because BFing can be so intimidating for moms of multiples. I was really discouraged when I started and I didn't feel like I belonged in any of the support groups I tried (which were mostly singleton moms).
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#13 alanna

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 09:57 PM

Okay - this has nothing to do with BFing - but since you touched on it, and it irks me - why are Moms of multiples okay posting in "singleton" threads but Moms of OAATs (one-at-a-times) are afraid to post in multiples threads?


I'm guessing this refers to my earlier post. I posted in this forum b/c I wanted to share a link to the multiples post b/c I thought it might be helpful. The Multiples post was referred to several times and I thought it would be nice to share the link. This post is also in the 'General Parenting Forum' and I am a parent.

I never really understood why there are usually due date groups and then other due date groups for the same dates for multiples. When there are so many multiples around here, why bother having two groups to keep up with? I feel like a minority with just a single! (not that I'm saying it shouldn't be there and maybe I'd understand if I were having more than one, but I don't get it from here where I am).


I'm sorry if me starting a 'Breastfeeding Multiples' topic has made anyone feel excluded. I thought it would be helpful for women pg with multiples to have specific information available to them. I think if you read that thread with an open mind you would see just how different it actually is. I can't speak for all moms of twins, but I feel that having more than one baby presents very unique issues and I know how very difficult it has been getting information. I've spent a lot of time scrolling through posts all over the internet looking for twins specific info. There is just not a lot out there.

Having two (or sometimes 3) babies that are the same age and have the same needs at the same time is very different than having one or even having two that are different ages. It seems like the whole world is made for women who have one baby at a time (Library Programs, swim lessons, Gymboree, music class, Mommy & Me Yoga, Mommy & Me Boot Camp...just to name a few). Pretty much everything we do, we do differently than someone with one baby (going on outings, nursing, safely playing, napping/sleeping issues, diaper changing etc). The pregnancy itself is very different and can be very scary. I had no idea how different it actually was until I lived it. I'm not sure why this is even an issue and why people are begrudging women pg with multiples or have multiples a place to discuss these issues. There are issue specific forums all over this site!

Just my 2 cents. Now I really wanted to help support women with bfing but I can see my earlier post in this thread upset some people. If I knew how to delete it, I would. If this is a singleton-specific post, maybe someone should remove 'multiples' as one of the tags.

Me (37) DH (36)

ivf w/icsi cycle- Apr./May 2010
Apr. 26 - ER! 12 eggs retrieved!
May 1 - ET!! 5dt of 2 beautiful blasts! 4 frosties!
May 6 - very faint +hpt (5dp5dt)!!
May 10 - BFP!!!! - BETA#1 - 9dp5dt - 381 !!!!! Sooo thankful!
May 12 - BETA#2 - 11dp5dt - 654 - Doubling Time of 61hrs (rose 86% in 48hrs).
June 1 - (7wks) 1st u/s - We saw 2 perfect little beans with strong heartbeats!!!
Sept. 2 - (20wks) On hospital bed rest due to placental abruption. 3 blood transfusions. Very scary but the babies are fine. Thank God!
Sept. 3 - We are having 2 little boys!!!
Oct. 27 - (28wks) Finally home on bed rest after 8 wks in the hospital!!! Babies are doing well but cervix is shortening.
Dec. 23 - (36wks 2 days) Last official u/s! Both babies estimated to be just under 6lbs each! Cervix at 0.7cm. Go cervix go!
Jan. 4, 2011 - After 4 months on bed rest we made it to 38wks and my scheduled c-section!!! Welcome to the world beautiful boys!!!

FET #1 April/May 2014 - Bfn.

FET #2 July/August 2014 - 1 lone 3AB frostie left in the freezer.
-embryo did not survive the thaw.

No more treatments for us. Feeling blessed that we had success. We're going to enjoy being a family of four.


#14 Ope

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:01 PM

Sore nipples: I used lanolin , but DS also was not fan of the taste. He was latching despite the taste, but I could tell he is not having a good time. My lactation consultant suggested me to put breastmilk on my nipples (all -around) and let it dry uncovered before I put my bra back. I do not know if this helped or not, but eventually my nipples healed and by the 2nd month cracked nipples were not an issue anymore.

nipple confusion: I also had one of those special bottle that mimic breastmilkflow, and no flow without sucking. Also i thought that after 4 weeks we quite established BF already, but I was wrong. Some babies just more prone to nipple confusion than others. Unfortunately there is no way to know ahead of time if a given baby will or will not be sensitive to nipple changes. I know babies in my mom's group who easily could switch between breast and bottle based on their mom's stories. However all of those mom eventually switched to bottle sooner or later. I am not sure there is a correlation or not, but it was my observation.

We have not mentioned inverted nipples and difference between left / right side yet. My ds had a very good latch, but my left nipple is a bit inverted, so he never had that really good strong latch on that side. I tried nipple shield, but didn't not helped much. As a result Ds never could satisfy his hunger just on my left side, so I always had to top up from my right side too, and it became a vicious circle. After just a few weeks , it became obvious that there is significant supply difference between my 2 sides. Finally I started to put DS on my left ( bad nipple) side first at every feeding. It worked because this way my left side always emptied out plus it get the strongest sucking as he was the the hungriest when he was there.
after a few weeks, the 2 sides almost equalized.
My sister and one of my friend also told me that one of their side had plenty of supply and the other is not so much. They eventually stopped BF on their low supply side and ended up using only their high supply side. My friend had 3 babies, and breastfeed them a total of 7 years, and there was a couple of years when she BF 2 kids and no she doesn't have twins. All this crazy amount of breastfeeding almost exclusively from one breast, because the other didn't worked.

pumping: Not everybody can pump, and do not get discourage by the amount you pump. Your milk supply maybe much bigger then you see as the outcome from pumping. Pumps have different sucking notion then the babies, and not as strong and not as stimulating to your production. The friend of mine who i mentioned to BF 3 kids, but could never pump more then a few ml. When her 2nd baby was born, she was still BF the first one who was just a 18 months old. The 2nd baby was a preemie, and spent a couple of weeks in the NICU. She tried to pump for her newborn, but she never had a let-down reflex when she was pumping. If she didn't see here baby nothing, not even a drop came out. When she was standing in front of the NICU and could see her baby she produced some milk, but minimal amount. At the same time she had no problem BF her toddler. They ended up formula feeding the new baby in the NICU, but after the baby was out he learned to latch and eventually he became an exclusively BF baby.
right now me : 37 Dh:40

TTC #1: natural TTC 1.5 yrs
Dh: 35, Severe Male factor infertility, morphology is 1-2%
Me: 32 , tubes open, no endo, regular ovulation, all hormones are good, 3rd day FSH 5.3 , antral follicle count is 12, only problem is my weight BMI: 30

IVF/ ICSI #1: 2008 February -McGill, Montreal
Long protocol: BCP for 1 month, burselin from CD21, 300 Gonal F and 150 Luveris for 10 days
ER: 11 egg , 6 mature , 5 fertilized, 3rd day transfer:a 7 cell & an 8 cell embyos, no frosties.
1st beta : 13dp3dt: 77, BFP
2008,November 19th: Adam has arrived 7 lb 4 oz, 21"

TTC #2: natural TTC 1.5 yr
Dh :39 morphology went up to 4%, we meet the IUI cutoff! count are fluctuating from 30 to 105 million, motility is great. Caryotyping is normal
Me: 36 FSH is slightly elevated and keep rising 8.5, 8.8, 8.9, 9.8 , AFC is still 12, everything else looks good.

IUI #1: Edmonton, 2011 January ,Clomid 50mg (x5), 106 mil ,68% motile, grade 4 :BFN
IUI #2: Edmonton, 2011 February, Clomid 50mg (x5), 30 mil, 57% motile, grade 3: BFN
IUI #3: Edmonton, 2011 March, Clomid 50mg (x5), 88 mil , 49% motile, grade 4: BFN
IVF#2: 2011 May, Edmonton: long protocol , nasal suprefact : CANCELLED due to high progresteron & cyst
IVF#3: 2011 August, Edmonton: short protocol/natural start: CANCELLED due to high progesterone
IVF#4: 2001 September, Edmonton: short protocol with BCP: CANCELLED due to high progresteron & cyst
Change clinic

IVF #5: 2012 March-April Hungary: stimulation starts march 28, 300 Menopur
mixed protocol: BCP for months, CD3: Menopur 300& lupron for 8 days
ER : April 8th , 4 eggs retrieved, all were mature and fertilized with ICSI and AH
ET : April 11th, 1 A quality 8 cell, and 1 A quality 4 cell embryo transferred, no frosties.
BFP on the HPT at 7dp3dt: happy 37th birthday to me :D
Beta: , 12dp3dt: 150, 2nd Beta, 15dp3dt: 550
Anna has arrived on 21st December after being induced at 39 week. She is 6 lb 9 oz, 20" , and has blue eyes, and long dark brown hair and just perfect !

#15 Luckypenny

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:04 PM

Great thread!

One of the best pieces of advice the lactation consultant gave me was - when the baby slows down compress your breast to cause milk to let down again. Nursing takes alot of energy for little babies, and they get tired easily. When the milk stops flowing the baby may start to fall asleep and stop nursing before they are full. When you compress your breast and milk flow starts again it will stimulate the baby to start to nurse again. Move your hand around as you compress. Also, if you feel "knots", compress the knot as you breastfeed in order to help clear any ducts that are getting a bit backed up.

If you are Strep B positive you are more prone to getting a yeast infection because of all of the antibiotics that you will be pumped full of during delivery. Start taking a good probiotic as soon as you can. Watch your nipples for yeast, if you catch it early you can save yourself alot of issues. My LC caught that I had a yeast infection. My nipples didn't burn, just some pain from ONE poor latch on the day DD was born. The skin on my nipples looked flaky and like it was moist and peeling. I didn't realize these were symptoms of yeast. I also didn't realize babies could get yeast on their wee bums :( I was so upset when the skin on my week old baby's bum turned red and peely. After figuring out what it was (with much help from my naturopathic doctor, a public health nurse and my lactation consultant) I treated it with monostat cream. That only helped to a point. I then got a candagen cream made by Genestra at the health food store and it completely cleared up DD's yeasty bum.

An overabundance of milk can be a blessing and can also cause issues. I had SO much milk(I remember one night thinking I could hear something leaking in our house and then I realized it was milk leaking from my breast and dripping on my foot! ). Many lactation consultants, nurses, etc. will warn against pumping for relief as they say it will make the problem worse. However, I used an inexpensive manual pump to pump enough to: relieve the discomfort caused by so much milk, make it easier for DD to latch (latching onto a breast that is so full and hard that it looks shiny from being stretched taut and barely has a nipple is HARD for a little baby!) and to reduce the let down that would almost choke DD. Looking back I feel guilty about the times that I nursed DD and DIDN'T pump a bit beforehand. Even though I pumped at least once a day in the first few months eventually my milk production levelled out. I was able to give all of the milk I had frozen to my best friend who had a baby 5 months after me and she had low milk supply (I had stored my milk in the deep freezer).

In the beginning when I had SO much milk and DD was tiny it was a struggle for her to latch and she was overwhelmed by the letdown. Then I would be frustrated when she would unlatch - because it was SO hard to get her to latch. This is definitely something I feel guilty about as I reflect on it. When I would get DD latched I would try to hold her in place to ensure she didn't unlatch because it was such a struggle to get her latched, and also the initial latch would often hurt. BUT I didn't realize at the time - she probably felt overwhelmed and like she was drowning. It was lack of education on my part, combined with being sleep deprived, exhausted and frustrate. She had a great latch/suck, but it was hard to get her lined up and get her on when her mouth was open wide enough, while working against the obstacle of her flailing wee arms. I've read since of moms nursing their babies while swaddled, which would have addressed the issues of flailing arms and the baby finally opening her mouth wide enough - only to stick her own hand in her mouth as I went to put her on the breast. However, I found DD fell asleep easily at the breast and I often nursed her in only a onesie.

I often felt like I needed an extra set of hands when DD was little to get her lined up and latched. Nursing in public was worse, not because I was self conscious but because of all of the other issues that being in public presented. Getting the baby lined up and latched under the nursing cover was even harder than without. Even though a nursing bra seemed easy enough - it was harder than pulling up a tank top, which was my wardrobe staple at home. Trying to nurse and not get leaking milk everywhere was a challenge. Getting put back together and trying to hold the baby was the worst. I would often ask my mom or husband - whoever was sitting next to me, to take the baby out from under the cover so that I could get my nursing pads back in place, nursing bra pulled up and top pulled down. I wish I had asked for this help EVERY time at the time.

I didn't realize how frustrating it could be. I imagined sitting and gazing lovingly at my baby as she peacefully nursed. That didn't come until MUCH later. It was painful and frustrating at times in the early days.

Nursing an older baby is much easier in some respects, but has challenges of it's own. Older babies want to look around while they nurse and aren't content to sit and stare at your chest and focus soley on nursing. The nursing cover becomes a prop for playing peek-a-boo. Older babies are curious about everything and will try to inspect and pick at your nipples.

I pump once a day to have a bit of milk so I can go out once in a while (I started volunteering one morning a week. DH's family owns their own business, so DD goes to work with DH and I meet up with them when I am done volunteering. So, minimum we need a bottle that one morning). Also, if DH and I go on a longer car ride together DD will get fussy, but will calm down if I give her a bottle. I find that if I can't get much milk, if I stop and nurse a bit my breasts will let down again and I will be able to pump MUCH more. It can mean the difference between 0.5oz to 1oz and 3 to 4 oz!
Me: 35 DH:35
Dx: Unexplained
Started ttc September 2006
November 2007 - Initial consult at LifeQuest
January 2008 - Diagnostic testing.
February 2008 - Test results - No problems with DH. Dr. suspected I had a PCOS variant and that I probably wasn't ovulating. Suggested superovulation (injectibles) with or without IUI
Decided to forgo treatment for the time being and focus on improving my health.
March 2008 - October 2009 - LOTS of alternative therapy. You name it, I tried it!
February 2009 - confirmed via cycle monitoring I was now ovulating and my ovaries both look fine. Officially unexplained IF. Hmmm, now what?
Next Steps: Had initial consult with Dr. Virro at Markham Fertility Centre on October 1, 2009. Hysteroscopy/laproscopy performed on February 5, 2010. Post op appointment on March 8, 2010. Found out one small spot of endo removed from uterus and a very tiny septum resected.
Started BCP on March 31, 2010.
First IVF (first anything!) cycle after.
Last BCP April 20th.
Started stims: April 25 (Puregon - varied from 100iu to 42.5iu, Menopur - 75iu, and orgalutron)
ER date - May 5th.
14 retrieved, 11 mature, 7 fertilized - 4 via IVF, 3 via ICSI
3 days past retrieval - 5 8-cell embryos (3 via IVF, 2 via ICSI), 2 lagging 6-cell embryos (1 via IVF, 1 via ICSI)
ET on May 10, 5day past retrieval - tranferred 1 "superb, could sell it on e-bay" embaby - grade 5AB0! 4 more "lovely" totsicles (2 5day, 2 6day). The ivf embies did better than the icsi embies.
Beta - May 21s: BFP! Beta was 507! Still early days, but we're happy to be pg!
Viability scan - June 11. Baby right on track, heartrate of 140bpm, measuring 7weeks 1day at just over 1cm long. HOWEVER, big cyst in my right ovary. Going back for another u/s in two weeks to monitor the cyst.
U/S to monitor cyst - June 24 - cyst shrank slightly. Baby still measuring on track, 9weeks 1day and just over 2cm long, heartrate of 167bpm
12week u/s - July 12 - cyst had shrank to 2cm. Baby looked like a baby! Moving around and flailing arms and legs. Just over 5.5cm long, heartrate of 160bpm. Nuchal scan and nasal bone both looked good. Doctor's appointment went well.
20 week ultrasound and doctors appointment - baby looks good - its a girl :) Test results from IPS test show a 1 in 20,000 risk of a chromosomal abnormality. Placenta is partially covering cervix, doctor will check again at 32 weeks.
26 week doctors appointment - GD test
30 week doctors appointment - got GD test results, I passed. Baby measuring on track, good strong heartbeat :)
32 week doctors appointment - u/s to check placenta position to see if it has been pulled up from my cervix and also to check baby's size

Lilypie First Birthday tickers

#16 silverdollar

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:13 PM

Thank you so much Frostedlemmon and Alanna for starting the breastfeeding threads! I'm following along with both and will come back again for later reference when my baby arrives. I do think there is good reason to have the two threads, but nobody should feel limited in posting in either place. There are certainly unique challenges with a variety of different situations (type of delivery, full term/ prem, single/multiple). I think we can each give and take from it what is appropriate without it needing to turn into a controversy. Posted Image

Unexplained IF/ DOR. Began TTC in 2008.
After a wild and crazy ride on the treatment train, our baby GIRL arrived on Jan 6, 2012
Hold on.... Surprise spontaneous just 7 months postpartum while still breastfeeding!!! Baby boy born May 2, 2013
My heart couldn't be more full :)
 
Full details are now in my profile "About Me" page

#17 feydruss

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 05:19 AM

What SD said.


 


Alanna, the thread you started was invaluable to all mums, and that's been acknowledged by everyone. I think frostedlemon starting this one in a different area is great because now more people would get information.


 


I think it's not just that some people are "afraid" to post in a multiples forum, as though their experiences are somehow less because they have one baby at a time, but because the multiples forums aren't at the top of their minds.


 


 


Sometimes I'm surprised at the amount of activity in the multiples area of the site, considering how busy MoMs are. But at the same time, I think we may need support and a community online that we can't get IRL the same way singleton mums have (as Alanna has said). I'm sure that the same can be said of the same-sex or adoption forums. And I never read those, because they're not part of my experience.


 


If you choose to read the multiples sections of the site, then that's great. I would hope that all parents (mums and dads) might get a different perspective on things by hearing what MoMs have to say. But that's your choice to gravitate there and read those threads. It's great that this BF discussion started up in more than one forum, because there are things we can learn from everyone. I'm sure that I would get valuable advice from other threads where wise singleton mums hang out, but I just don't.


 


Or perhaps I should be intimidated to post this in this BFing thread because I only managed to BF one of my babies on one side and otherwise pumped for 5 months? 


 

3rd cycle was the charm (despite everything going wrong)!
History and details in my profile
Twin boys Milan and Duncan born at 32w4d on 15 November 2010


#18 feydruss

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 05:19 AM

Holy crap I don't know why the post showed up like that. I didn't do anything differently!

3rd cycle was the charm (despite everything going wrong)!
History and details in my profile
Twin boys Milan and Duncan born at 32w4d on 15 November 2010


#19 tigerlady

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 07:03 AM

I was just trying to decipher your post Fey LOL i though it was me and I needed more coffee LOL I have no idea why it would do that, glitch i guess!

These 2 bf'ing threads are great! My daughter and my son have been sooo different, my daughter never latched and I had the bleeding sore scabbed nipples etc... not enough milk. My son has never had a latch problem even from the moment he was born 6weeks early. Even at 3 months all he wants to do is nurse. He nurses and comfort nurses a good portion of the day.
Anne
IVF.CA Team


Me 34 DH 50 TTC 5 Years, 2 Ectopic, one tube removed one blocked.. many miscarriages and grief later 1 Laparotomy, 1 Laprascopy
IVF#1
Dec 9, 2008 start BCP Dec 20,2008 Start Suprefact Jan 2, 2009 start Puregon....wooohooo good-bye Suprefact headaches
23 Follicles, 20 growing I am starting to feel like I will burst!!! ER: Jan 14Thank god thats over with!!!!!! 11 Eggs retrieved - 9 Fertilized
ET - Jan 17 930 am - transferred 2 8cell grade 3.5 embryos,,, 2 to Freeze :-)) Beta Jan 28- 113 Beta Jan 30- 339 Beta Feb 2- 1570 DUE DATE Oct 8, 2009 u/s feb 9 One baby!
2nd u/s Feb 20 143 HB! All is well, no more trips to OFC! ITS A GIRL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shelby-Anne Darcy was born on Sept 17, 2009 at 1920hrs weighing 7lbs5oz!!!! My beautiful little miracle!!

IVF #2 - Consult Mar 17, 2010!! March 29 - Baseline ultrasound - 26 Follicles Woohoo STarted BCP April 28 Suprefact May 8 225iu Puregon May 21 ER: June 2 11 Eggs retrieved!! Only 6 fertilized ET: June 5 2 embies 8 cell grade 4 and 8 cell grade 3 POAS-a-thon begins June 14 - Beta:June 18 BFP - thought it was miscarriage - nope, thought it was ectopic--no..dont think so, something in the uterus......the suspense.....
MISCARRIAGE :-(

IVF#3 Nov 21 start Suprefact, Dec 3 Puregon ----- stay tuned - transferred 2 perfect eggs on Day 3
We are pregnant!! WOohoo Beta 3025 JAN - One perfect bean measuring a week ahead and a beautiful heartbeat!
Mitchell Robert Alphonse Cormier was born August 02, 2011 at 2014 hrs weighing 6 pounds, 6 ounces~

#20 frostedlemon

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 08:34 AM

I didn't mean to create controversy at all, Alanna! I'm sorry it came across that way - your explanation totally makes sense to me, I just hadn't thought of it that way because I haven't lived it. Don't delete your post! I think it was incredibly helpful. I meant for this to be for anyone, not just for singles (hence the multiples tag). I hadn't realized there was such a dearth of help for multiples since I pretty much get all my info about it from here and that's really just out of curiosity.

See About Me for full info.

 

“Great spirits have always encountered opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly.” - Albert Einstein
 


#21 sohopeful

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 10:23 AM

I'm very sorry that my little comment that I had read the multiples breastfeeding forum but not posted on it caused such an emotional response, that was definitely not my intention!! I had no bitterness in me when I wrote that, I'm sorry if anyone felt that I did. I just thought it was an awesome forum with so much info that I happened to read one day while laying in bed BFing my little onePosted Image (one of my favorite ways to nurse btw--laying on my bed with my laptop) BFing "issues" don't just happen when a baby is born, it is definitely something that is always changing as the baby grows and changes, I enjoyed reading other people's stories.
April 2010 IVF with ICSI #1
Me 29 DH 39
03/20- started BCP
04/01- started meds
04/29- ER 11 eggs retrieved
04/30- 11 eggs mature & fertilized
05/01- 10 embryos
05/04- 5dt of 1 blastocyst. 4 frosties.
05/11- BFP on HPT!!!!!
05/14-BETA #1 65
m/c at 5 1/2 wks.

June/July 2010 FET #1
07/12- ET of 1 blast. Still have 3 frosties waiting
07/22- beta - BFN :(

July/August FET # 2
08/16 - ET of 2 blasts. Still have 1 more frostie.
08/27 - beta 11dp5dt 281
08/30 - beta 14dp5dt 1185
09/01 - beta 16dp5dt 2552
09/13 - u/s - 1 heartbeat
11/26 - u/s - We are having a BOY!!!
EDD May 4, 2011
Baby boy born April 30, 2011 @ 1:14am. 7 lb 8 oz.

#22 sohopeful

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 10:41 AM

I don't think anyone has talked about breast massage before pumping so I thought I'd share this because it made the difference for me of pumping 40 mL or pumping 4 oz.

-massage the ducts by placing fingers at the top of the breast and firmly pressing them into the chest and moving fingers in a circular motion. Move in circular motions slowly around the breast toward the areola
-stroke the breast from the top down to the nipple with a light tickle-like stroke, continuing around the whole breast
-shake your breast lightly while leaning forward

Do these steps before you pump and I also would stop pumping when the milk flow slowed and do these steps and then start again. A LC showed these to me. I felt a little silly doing them at first, but it really worked.
April 2010 IVF with ICSI #1
Me 29 DH 39
03/20- started BCP
04/01- started meds
04/29- ER 11 eggs retrieved
04/30- 11 eggs mature & fertilized
05/01- 10 embryos
05/04- 5dt of 1 blastocyst. 4 frosties.
05/11- BFP on HPT!!!!!
05/14-BETA #1 65
m/c at 5 1/2 wks.

June/July 2010 FET #1
07/12- ET of 1 blast. Still have 3 frosties waiting
07/22- beta - BFN :(

July/August FET # 2
08/16 - ET of 2 blasts. Still have 1 more frostie.
08/27 - beta 11dp5dt 281
08/30 - beta 14dp5dt 1185
09/01 - beta 16dp5dt 2552
09/13 - u/s - 1 heartbeat
11/26 - u/s - We are having a BOY!!!
EDD May 4, 2011
Baby boy born April 30, 2011 @ 1:14am. 7 lb 8 oz.

#23 frostedlemon

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 11:34 AM

I have some notes on things to comment on from the other posts, but I'm currently feeding and typing with one hand, which is slow and annoying, so I'll do that later.

I also find that putting warm washcloths on my breast, especially if there are clogged ducts (put the cloth on the area of those), really helps get things flowing for me. I haven't tried it for pumping but I do that any time I'm hand expressing to relieve pressure or when I have really badly clogged ducts. Also doing it in the shower is easier for the same reasons, plus I can shoot anywhere and don't have to worry about mess.

See About Me for full info.

 

“Great spirits have always encountered opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly.” - Albert Einstein
 


#24 ladylazarus

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 12:09 PM

I'm at the "nursing older baby" stage and last week I got bit!!! He bit down and then raked his shark-like brand-new baby teeth over my nipple. AAAA!!! I had to revert back to my "nursing newborn" memories to get me through several days because I was suddenly having to work through the pain on the bitten nipple and also the possibility of being bitten again. I was feeling mighty paranoid and he'd look up at me with those big brown innocent eyes. I'm sure I detected a glint of evil monkey in there LOL! Thankfully, it hasn't happened again like and I'm a little more vigilant.

Yes, it sure seems like my older baby is all over the place. He may nurse serenely or he may flail all over the place. For the few times it comes up, nursing in public can very difficult these days unless I feel like flashing passersby.

My goal is to keep going until next summer. We're small people in my family and he's a small baby, so I want to give him every advantage to bulk up a little. I'm having to really mind my diet and stay hydrated. It's a struggle sometimes but I really love the sweetness of nursing and I'm not ready to wean him yet!!
Me - 44 One Blocked Tube, One Sleepy Ovary
DH - 54 Tired Swimmers
"I've had dreams enough for one, And I've got love enough for three..."
TTC 4 years
2007 - Charts, temps, pre-seed & all the rest - BFN every month
2008 - 7 IUI's in Seattle, using Femera- All BFN
2009 IVF/ICSI #1 @ PCRM - Canceled Long Lupron, no response (of course!)
2009 IVF/ICSI #2 @ PCRM - BFP, but low HCG (49 @ 11dp3dt), chemical
2010 IVF/ICSI #3 @ VFC - BFP!! Third time was a charm!

Little Ronnie, my Winter Solstice baby was born December 22nd 9:36am, 6lbs 13oz 19.5" long

#25 Ope

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 12:44 PM

ladylazarus: Oh, the biting phase have started. , not the fondest part. I totally agree with the evil monkey eyes, I swear I saw that glance in my DS eyes too Posted Image
Ds bit me a couple of times, and I just gently told him it hurts and no more boobies and took my breast away. It was a bit sobbing afterwards, but after a few times he clearly knew that biting has consequences.
I BF DS until he was 23 months old, but avoided public places after he was 9-10 months old. I had a 36J breastfeeding boobs, so it was very easy to him to flash my boobs to everyone. He started daycare around that time too, so I ended up reducing BF to morning, right after pickup in my car (2:30 pm) , and before bed. By the time he was 1 yr old, he didn't even want at the pickup time, so it became morning and evening ritual. Except when he was sick, because then it was a lifesaver and became sole food intake for a couple of days.

I loved BF Ds, and I was really sad when I had to wean him, so we can start fertility treatment . It was 1 yr ago this month , and I am not even pregnant yet with the sibling. :( I wish I had let him BF longer and allow him to self wean himself.
right now me : 37 Dh:40

TTC #1: natural TTC 1.5 yrs
Dh: 35, Severe Male factor infertility, morphology is 1-2%
Me: 32 , tubes open, no endo, regular ovulation, all hormones are good, 3rd day FSH 5.3 , antral follicle count is 12, only problem is my weight BMI: 30

IVF/ ICSI #1: 2008 February -McGill, Montreal
Long protocol: BCP for 1 month, burselin from CD21, 300 Gonal F and 150 Luveris for 10 days
ER: 11 egg , 6 mature , 5 fertilized, 3rd day transfer:a 7 cell & an 8 cell embyos, no frosties.
1st beta : 13dp3dt: 77, BFP
2008,November 19th: Adam has arrived 7 lb 4 oz, 21"

TTC #2: natural TTC 1.5 yr
Dh :39 morphology went up to 4%, we meet the IUI cutoff! count are fluctuating from 30 to 105 million, motility is great. Caryotyping is normal
Me: 36 FSH is slightly elevated and keep rising 8.5, 8.8, 8.9, 9.8 , AFC is still 12, everything else looks good.

IUI #1: Edmonton, 2011 January ,Clomid 50mg (x5), 106 mil ,68% motile, grade 4 :BFN
IUI #2: Edmonton, 2011 February, Clomid 50mg (x5), 30 mil, 57% motile, grade 3: BFN
IUI #3: Edmonton, 2011 March, Clomid 50mg (x5), 88 mil , 49% motile, grade 4: BFN
IVF#2: 2011 May, Edmonton: long protocol , nasal suprefact : CANCELLED due to high progresteron & cyst
IVF#3: 2011 August, Edmonton: short protocol/natural start: CANCELLED due to high progesterone
IVF#4: 2001 September, Edmonton: short protocol with BCP: CANCELLED due to high progresteron & cyst
Change clinic

IVF #5: 2012 March-April Hungary: stimulation starts march 28, 300 Menopur
mixed protocol: BCP for months, CD3: Menopur 300& lupron for 8 days
ER : April 8th , 4 eggs retrieved, all were mature and fertilized with ICSI and AH
ET : April 11th, 1 A quality 8 cell, and 1 A quality 4 cell embryo transferred, no frosties.
BFP on the HPT at 7dp3dt: happy 37th birthday to me :D
Beta: , 12dp3dt: 150, 2nd Beta, 15dp3dt: 550
Anna has arrived on 21st December after being induced at 39 week. She is 6 lb 9 oz, 20" , and has blue eyes, and long dark brown hair and just perfect !





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