[mouse]

((GF))

[tabby]

GF- I missed the blog post where you said that your RE didn't recommend another cycle. I'm so sorry.

[Anahera]

I've been lurking for a while reading all these posts, I find it all very interesting indeed.
So many options are out there for a woman to have a child, it all costs a lot of money, it's all emotionally draining and often confusing.

I admire anyone who is taking another path, just as I admire anyone who stays trying on the same path whether it be a normal IVF cycle, TTC naturally or ED, SD, Surrogacy or adoption....the road is tough no matter which corner you turn.

I love each and every one of you, and at the end of the day, I just hope we all get what we want.

I remember something (I think it was Mouse or Mollygirl) once said their DH asked them...
"Do you want a child...or do you want to be pregnant?"
It raises a very good question...and although my answer to that is "Both!" I was beginning to look at surrogacy before falling pg this time around.

PS: Did you all see on the news recently the very very dark skinned UK couple who had a natural pregnancy and gave birth to a healthy very very white skinned, blue eyed baby girl with blonde hair...
Apparently both parents carry a dorment white gene or something...it's been a very interesting story...tests are still continuing...and it's not the milk mans!
http://www.thesun.co...white-baby.html

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[Edie]

Anahera that is brilliant and so funny - what a picture!

Gf your post made me think of lots of things I wanted to say to you and then I had to rush out...I think it's a good thing to want to save the world. Why not? But maybe a child raised by you will contribute to that effort because you will impart to it all the best things. Hang in. hey, have you seen 'Hannah and her Sisters'? That marvellous Woody Allen film? There is a great scene at the end where Dianne Weiss tells Woody she is pg. Woody has been told he has hopeless sperm, so he is blown away. It's a very hopeful scene. He talks about the strength of the human heart and what a great muscle it is.

xx

[oceania]

I remember a few years ago when I learned my dear friend was going to Europe for egg donation and figured she make a trip of it. Honestly I thought this was so weird and not something I would ever do! Hmmmmm, I know now I did not understand at all just how and where this journey could take a person. I still don't. What I do know - is I am different because of it and see the world, women, reproductive health, and the concept of family so very differently.

Victoria - I do agree with you about how the burden of the journey lifts or changes once the decision to proceed with ED occurs. I will tell you all last December when the deposit was made/the hotel booked/ the ET and ER days provided, protocol given - I was sooooooooo EXCITED .... there was never a doubt in my mind that conception would not occur, and yes, peace is the word I would use. But then hope sidetracked me and I took that path instead. Do I regret it, sometimes, well maybe often because of what the journey has been like up to now. But as GF pointed out and I have pondered the DE route is risky (I think it was my DH that planted that seed for me). On some deep level I do believe that there is a good egg that will hook up with that non-frag sperm of his - we have had good embies but they dont stick. And yet I too have been toying with when will I book this again (it is only a 3month wait for us). So is my wishy washyness (not a word I know) impacting on my outcome???? Its hard not to waiver.

As I reflected on your words Victoria, I realized for me its not about not loving children or others children, I think the real issue is fear of failure. I also think that because I feel time is running on am I bypassing my own genetic possibilities driven by this fear of lack of time/failure? What I cant honestly answer is the "what" really matters my own or DE - so I wonder for me does it???

Anahera- it was said best wasn't it - do you want to be pregnant or have a child - for me it is have a child - that being said - the route for me is to be pregnant. But after seeing that photo I do think it is tempting to do genetic testing for that specific gene

GF -Adoption here is the same long drawn out 2 year process of invasive review and weekly classes - which is fabulous if you can rid your mind of the fact that in 2 years you may still not have a child and as you pointed out the child of choice. It pisses me off that individuals who want to adopt are put through the ringer and those who are so reckless with these precious lives are let alone to do just that. I know the IVF.ca did try hard to change the adoption laws in Ontario but it fell on deaf ears.

Saffy - "Lining up for IVF#5 if FSH drops below 20 and on an 18-month waiting list for DE. Cannot believe I just wrote either of those things." I think this is courageous and hopeful and pleased for you girl! How do you feel about this Saffy?

Edie - Always so wise -how are you feeling?

AFM - I am 8 days late waiting for my AF and trying so hard to love my body for dragging this out - hoping that it isnt those 2 follicles they saw on day 21 reeking havoc!!! Will keep you looped.

Take good care~

[Sapphire]

Interestingly, I haven't really thought about the implications of DE at all, and DH and I haven't discussed it in any depth, except to agree we should get on the list as a back-up plan. Mostly, I can blame the long wait for that - deep down I can't believe that in 18 months time we won't have either succeeded or given up. I'm sure I will angst more if it becomes more real. On the other hand, in 18 months time it will be almost certain that DE is our only option - again, lack of options makes some decisions easier. If it gets to that point, I can't believe that I will be prepared to sacrifice the dream of having a child simply for the lack of a genetic connection.

The only thing that has really bothered me about DE is that I can't get my head around how and when to tell a child conceived that way. Personally, the stories of preschoolers drawing pictures of 'mummy, daddy and the lady who gave mummy the egg that became me' make me uncomfortable - not because Ithink that using DE should be hidden, but because I still think it is a private issue and would prefer not to tell a child until they had a concept of privacy and what they might (or might not) what to announce to the world. But by that time, is a child's self-identity sufficiently developed that it would come as a shock that might hurt them? I know, might never become an issue for us and ever if it does its a long way in the future and not worth losing sleep over now and there will be people and resources to draw on should it become necessary. But while it is a hypothetical issue (for me) at least, I'd be interested in your perspectives.

Speaking of which, I wonder how Lenann, our DE superstar is doing??

[Edie]

Like you say, Saff, dealing with how to tell your child is a while off - not that it isn't worth considering. And like you say, there are many who have gone before you with helpful tips. I think any way which puts the child absolutely first is the way to go.

[joyfulintent]

Hi Ladies - fascinating discussion on the DE subject. We, too, have that on the table as an option. I found that exploring it as a possibility with the RE was a very liberating conversation because while we're going to have a few more gos with our own genes, it means that there is a next step and should mean we have a very good chance of a baby. So it goes on the backburner for now but has left me feeling more uplifted about the whole process and feeling more hopeful about our next try.

I'm on a business trip and on the plane read 'A matter of life' the true story of the original test tube baby - or more how the original RE and OB developed IVF at all. A ripping yarn! Well, if you like stories of mice embryos and scientific experimentation. (They used their own sperm in early experiments which gives a whole new meaning to the idea of throwing yourself into your work.....) Quite amazing to think how impossible this whole technology was not so long ago. We are all, despite all the disappointments, incredibly lucky to even have this chance.

On the way home and very much looking forward to a weekend of R&R - it has been a very tough couple of weeks. Culminating in missing my plane (don't even ask) and so sentenced to another couple of hours in the airport. Heavy sigh.

J

[joyfulintent]

double post

[Victoria]

Joyful, yeah, all this technology is still fairly new. I'm glad that I've had the opportunity because I know women who never had the opportunity to think about IVF.

Edie, telling the child is not worth worrying about but I had to make the decision about when I will tell before I decided on the next step. I may change my mind later.

Saffy, I plan to tell the child as soon as he or she can understand. I had to get my partner to agree to all these things. I'm looking at adoption cases. Since I also know someone who had done the DE thing a long time ago, I think I will know when to tell although every child is different. Children don't really care but it's us who carry the burden.

Oceania, is your AF usually late? Has it come?

Anahera, since I want a child I picked both: "Do you want [another] child...or do you want to be pregnant?"

GF, hope you’re well.

[oceania]

Hello everyone - hope all is well. Quick post

The crossroads
- day 3 FSH great, quite a few follicles (whoo hoooo) however I just found out my AMH is 1.1 (that is super bad ovarian reserve!!!). Will wait and see what happens day 7 and go from there. Remarkably I am not upset about the AMH result -yet!

Cheers
Oceania

[oceania]

Did I scare everyone away?

AFM-Lagging follicles-asked MD and nurse why 5 follies haven't budged in size x5 days -they don't know- hmmmmm- keeping my chin up - hoping for stellar results on day 10.


That's my excitement!

[Anahera]

Oceania, I hope your follies come to the party over the next few days!
Grow follies grow grow grow!

Thinking of everyone xxx

[lenann]

I have been doing driveby readings for the last bit and trying to get time
to actually sit down and write but it still may not happen so bear with me.
RE the d/e discussion, we haven't decided what we are going to do either. I
know that they (whomever they are) recommend that you tell the child but as we
have somewhat of a genetic connection, will it make it harder for the child
to think that "that is my real father" but not "my real mother"?? I think we
will wait to see how the world is at that time, d/e and IVF may be such common
things in 10-15 years that maybe it will just be part of the norm as international
adoption is now.

Have my MIL coming in tonight and we are going to tell her the news, she is going
to be so excited..to bad I can't understand her..lol. We have our 12wk u/s
scheduled for when she is here so she can be a part of it.

Am feeling well, still haven't come to terms with being pg or the fact that
it is twins. That is probably why I haven't been around so much as I'm not
currently cycling but don't feel like being part of the due dates forum yet.
Have still been paranoid that this won't work but am getting better with each
followup appointment. At my 1st prenatal (last Friday) doctor tried to use the
doppler and didn't hear anything so she send me for emergency u/s as she thought
there was a problem. I wasn't too bad as I know that 10wks is still early for
that test plus I had a pretty full bladder from waiting so long so figured
nothing could be heard through that..lol. But everything was okay.

I hope you are all doing well and promise to be better at keeping in touch.

Oceania..grow follies grow.

Hugs to you all

[Anahera]

So glad to hear everything is going well Lennan....congrats on reaching the 12wk mark...you're almost there honey!
Hope everything goes well with your scan & MIL being there

[Victoria]

Oceania, you didn't scare anyone away. I don't know what AMH (1-1) means. The last time my doc said mine was 56. I don't know much about these medical stuff. I hope and pray that you will have a successful cycle.

Lenann, I'm living my baby dreams vicariously through you. Believe me. I hope you'll be able to understand your MIL. You can get your DH to translate for you.

Anahera, you're just going. Can you still believe that you are actually still pregnant after all the m/c. You must be in shock still.

Edie, is your son here yet? Did you give him a name? Or is your belly big, big? We didn't see any belly pics so don't expect me to show you mine when I get preggy (lol).

GF, you blow me away with you honesty.

Sharlene, how's pregnancy treating you?

Lisa, share the joy of motherhood.

Nice belly pic, Kat. Looks as though it's sitting on your lap.

Saffy, a hug from me to you.

Joyful, how goes everything?

BFK, Mollygirl, Hopeful and everyone else, a big hello.

How are the NOTB children? I'm happy that all of us are not in limbo and I expect the ones still in limbo to get out soon.

AFM: I recently joined the DE thread. My partner has gotten sooo past the DE barrier that we are already thinking about what to do with the guest room (Do we really want to plan for guests or babies?) and buying a bigger house in two years with a bigger back yard. He commented that he still can't envision pushing a stroller at 45 or older. AH once said that if you build it they will come. I've been saying the same words too.

[Edie]

Lenann I am so pleased things are going well. It will be lovely timing to tell your MIL around the time of your 12 week u/s. Congratulations. And I am sure as time goes by you will come out of shock (though I haven't!)

Victoria, I am soooo pleased you have processed things and come to this point in the journey. There seems to be so much hope now - and your dh will look gorgeous pushing the pram at 45. It's all the rage these days. Build it and they will come indeed!

Oceania grow follies grow!!!! You haven't scared anyone away and I am cheering you on from the sidelines.

Joyful I hope things have shifted once again, after the tough couple of weeks, and that you are home and happy and moving towards your next step.

AFM no Victoria no baby here yet. But I am full term - as in 37 weeks. My dh is out with some rugby mates from interstate. I said a million times, 'Just take your mobile honey, just in case.' I needed to call him for some other reason (not labor) and do you think his darn mobile was switched on???? NO. Grrrrrrrrr. Men!

But all is well and I will probably go to my due date.

Love and blessings to all cyber-sisters.

x Edie

[oceania]

Good morning everyone

I think it is very interesting Lenann- this forum doesnt really have many current cyclers anymore, in fact its a mishmash of so many different steps along the way I find! But thats the nature of forums over time ... I would like to think your "cybersisters"(love that Edie)who have been there done that or are eagerly waiting to hear whats next still think you fit right here!!! So pleased for you that you are nearing the 12 week point and agree with Anahera - it seems that is the point where you can really with relief!!

Anahera/Edie so happy to hear things are well with both of you - I can't believe how time is flying and I,m anxious to see the pics !!

Lisa1995 - how is the little one? How are you?
Joyful/Saffy/GF - want you to know that I have been thinking alot about the three of you!!

Victoria - SO DE it is! Do you have a time picked out and a clinic? How special that is re: how your DH has totally turned around.

AMH is a test in addition to FSH/Antral follicle count that determines ovarian reserve - and I was told that anything <2 IVF is contraindicated and chances of natural conception would be higher. That is all I can fess up to typing!! Somehow the visual in words makes it real and oh so hard to deal with and forces me to go where I cannot today and answer this question. Does this mean I cancel my current cycle because this information says to??? I havent told my DH this information - his family is here for a visit and he has had enough drama for this week with the medication mishaps I have been having :0.

Stay calm and carry on????
xx

[Victoria]

Oceania, yes, not many people are cycling - this thread is indeed a mix of everything and everyone (IVF with own eggs, DE IVF, Mothers and mothers to be), and as you said, as more women achieve their dreams or we move on to different things, it takes on a new shape. The other threads are the same - not static so I think that's good. If we all didn't get pregnant, this site (IVF.ca or NOTB would be a grim place.

Should you cancel your cycle? Oh boy, that's difficult. How do you feel? What's your gut-instinct?
My partner has really changed but I'm still cautious, hoping that he doesn't wake up one morning and retreat.

Making a New List
I'm kind of holding on to those who've walked this way even if they do not come back and I'm compiling a list of everyone here still or those who would like to join. I haven't included everyone because I can't remember everyone right now, so if you'd like to update the list with what you're doing or where you're at, please copy and fill in. I'll make it better. I can't add the humour those who've worked on the list here or Mouse so eloquently provided. Any suggestion on how to write the list? If the info below is incorrect, let me know.

The List

Taking a break or considering other options: GF, Mollygirl
Waiting to Cycle: Victoria (September/October), Joyful, Saffy
Cycling: Oceania July/August)
To Motherhood Train: Sharlene, Lenann, Edie, Anahera, Kat (expected due dates)
With Ducklings: Tabby, Val, AH, Lisa, Tabby (dates if you wish)

[tabby]

My little guy was born February 4, 2010.

[sharlene]

Well, I've just done some catch up reading. So much going on - I don't know when/how I'd tell a child that we used donor egg - that's a tough one - I may be tempted never to mention it at all - though that's probably not politically correct, but I'm usually not pc so there you go. I guess the fact that we're both women (no DH, but a DW), will tell the child pretty quickly that we used donor sperm!

When to stop trying with one's own eggs, sperm, or even uterus (surrogacy) is such an impossible question to even try to answer - it reminds me of when I had an old car - I could never figure out when to keep putting in more money to fix the next part that broke and when to give up and get a different/newer car - it always seemed that I'd fixed every possible part until the next part (that I'd never even heard of before) broke. I'd end up putting thousands into a car worth a few hundred. Sigh.

I don't know what our next step would have been if this embryo hadn't stuck around. I'm still pretty amazed that it has. I still wait for the other shoe to drop - some news that tells me this hasn't really worked so far - but so far so good - 18 weeks today. We sort of know the sperm donor and have been delaying in writing to him to tell him that it has stuck thus far. He had asked (if it's a boy) whether he can attend the Bris (ritual Jewish circumcision) - and at that time, when becoming pregnant and having it stick and then be a boy seemed like such a far removed possibility, I said "sure." Now, it seems like it's a boy (okay, the OB is quite sure of himself and keeps pointing out the "shmeckel" but I really thought it was a girl) - and I don't want our family and friends questioning who this guy that no one knows is - I know this is trivial and stupid but the whole donor discussion got me thinking about it again. I also know that I'm lucky to even have this to think about - I still don't believe this is even real.

Edie - when you don't post for a few days I think you're in labor! I don't recall any pregnancy photo - I'm feeling fat all alone!

Anahera - that is some weird looking photo - I couldn't see the article from work but I'll try to read it later - the father could have thought the wife was fooling around - but then the baby doesn't seem to reflect her color either - if it was IVF, they'd have suspected someone else's embryo - I sure would have!

Victoria - it seems DH has turned a corner on DE - but I would probably still be a little worried that one day he'll say "on second thought..." - probably not though - he'd probably just be thrilled when you were pregnant. Yes, you're right - how the "cybersisters" are at so many different stages of this journey - I do wish everyone was where they want to be - I actually feel a little selfish or greedy that I've gotten pregnant at my age - believe me I think my RE is pretty surprised about it! He really gave us bad odds - and I still can't say why I just chose to go forward anyway (to tell the truth, the fact that we have great insurance coverage sure didn't hurt in saying "let's give it another shot").

Lenann - how did the mother-in-law visit go? Are you planning to share about the DE with her even? I know there have been things I've told people that I later wished I hadn't so I now try to tend to share less till I'm more sure I want it out there - once told, you can't get privacy back. Have you grown much yet? Even if it doesn't sink in for a while, one of these days it's going to sink in big time - twins - wow!

I have to get back to work - I've been perusing ivf.ca for far longer than I should have today - one of these days they'll block this site from work and I'll have serious withdrawal so better do some more work before they figure out where/how I'm spending my time.

Thinking of you all.

[Anahera]

Hi Ladies,
Just a very quick post because i'm heading back to bed.
Sharlene, that story was all over the news here from the UK, it was a natural pregnancy from what I recall, and no fooling around by the Mother (though that is what I thought at first too! LOL).
Victoria, So glad you have found the new steps to take in DE, I look forward to following your journey and pray for good news along the way! Nice to see a list back again, thank you ... I am due on Dec 1st but being induced on Nov 19th.
Edie, MEN! Unreal....have been thinking about you heaps lately and hoping all is well...not long to go now sweets!
Lenann & Sharlene, so glad you are both doing so well.
Tabby, how is Desmond doing?
Oceania, you certainly didnt scare anyone away, I guess everyone is just going through their own feelings and thoughts right now, it has been pretty quiet throughout the entire website lately I think. I guess only you know if you should cancel your cycle or not, i'm sure you'll make the right choice at the right time.

Thinking of everyone else...and hoping you are all well xxx

[Sapphire]

oceania, on 31 July 2010 - 05:27 AM, said:

Good morning everyone

I think it is very interesting Lenann- this forum doesnt really have many current cyclers anymore, in fact its a mishmash of so many different steps along the way I find! But thats the nature of forums over time ... I would like to think your "cybersisters"(love that Edie)who have been there done that or are eagerly waiting to hear whats next still think you fit right here!!! So pleased for you that you are nearing the 12 week point and agree with Anahera - it seems that is the point where you can really with relief!!

Anahera/Edie so happy to hear things are well with both of you - I can't believe how time is flying and I,m anxious to see the pics !!

Lisa1995 - how is the little one? How are you?
Joyful/Saffy/GF - want you to know that I have been thinking alot about the three of you!!

Victoria - SO DE it is! Do you have a time picked out and a clinic? How special that is re: how your DH has totally turned around.

AMH is a test in addition to FSH/Antral follicle count that determines ovarian reserve - and I was told that anything <2 IVF is contraindicated and chances of natural conception would be higher. That is all I can fess up to typing!! Somehow the visual in words makes it real and oh so hard to deal with and forces me to go where I cannot today and answer this question. Does this mean I cancel my current cycle because this information says to??? I havent told my DH this information - his family is here for a visit and he has had enough drama for this week with the medication mishaps I have been having :0.

Stay calm and carry on????
xx

Just a quick post from one is avowedly prejudiced against cancelling cycles until there's no other option. I've never had an AMH test but I thought that, as it indicates ovarian reserve, it would predict how many eggs you are likely to produce, rather than saying anything about the quality of them. If that's the case, I would continue with stims at least until your first U/S so you can see if there are actually any there. That was the approach I took on one cycle (which we did end up cancelling after the U/S), because I preferred to make the decision based on the actual info from the U'/S (seen with my own eyes), rather than hormonal predictors. So it cost us a few hundred dollars (ok, probably a thousand) in meds, a few jabs and a few more days uncertainty, but I'm still happy with having handled it the way I did - I would have second guessed the decision to cancel, but I never regretted the decision to go on to the U/S.

Of course, as it turned out, the hormonal predictors (high FSH in my case) were proven right, so you can equally take my experience as an argument to trust the numbers and not cause yourself any more angst, if you prefer. Only you know which will be the path of least regret for you.

Hi to everyone - will try to catch up properly a bit later.

[oceania]

Saffy - thank you!!

I am going ahead 4 great follicles and 3 little ones that might catch up. E2 levels are also doing well. Re thinks I will be ready Friday but will be asking for one more day I think as we were all unsure if day 1 was really day1. Since this will be my last kick at the ICSI cat I want to be sure there are no regrets. Will keep you all posted ... please keep your fingers crossed mon amies!!

Oceania

[Edie]

Oceania my fingers will be crossed hunny, big time. Four decent follicles seems a perfectly decent reason to keep going at this point. I know we hear it over and over, but it only takes one!

Sharlene, you go girl. You are doing so well, and to reach 18 weeks is fantastic. You are an inspiration for all of us. Can you just tell a wee white fib about the man coming to the Bris - he did ask after all, quite early in the peace. Can you just say he is a work colleague or something? Hopefully noone will be focus on him. BTW I know what you mean about the other shoe being about to drop. I am the same way. I do not know how to get my head around this AT ALL. I have never held a newborn in my life. For a long time they just weren't in my life - and then later - when they were - I was in too much pain and struggling too hard to make a family for myself to go near one. Nuts, I guess. So now it's coming. Gee, how to grasp it? I guess I will just go the hospital and push really hard and then at some point I will have to grasp it, right? gulp.

Victoria, I say it every time but I am really really glad for you and DH and wishing you every success in the world. Thank you for the list - it is perfect.

Saff, what is happening for you next? Do you have a follow up booked? How are you feeling now? You are in the newly renovated home, now, right? I hope you are making lots of cups of tea with the new red kettle and sitting on the couch admiring your new nest.

AFM no labor yet! I am working too hard I guess. Still swimming and walking and then collapsing into bed weeping that it's all too hard, then being driven and vacuuming the car and washing kitchen walls and lugging home giant bags of fruit. A bit nuts. But healthy, that's the main thing. Is it? Is that the main thing? I don't know anymore... can you tell from my tone that I had a bad fight with dh last night? It sort of isn't quite sorted yet (as in, we haven't spoken) so I feel teary. Hopefully it will sort out any minute and things will feel ok again.

As for sisters coming and going - I agree that the going bit is hard. I think the mixed thread issue has left people a little lost and unsure as to whether they belong. I know this is old ground, but I still think it affects people. I know it has me - can a pg person express difficulty over fights with partner? Can a pg person have a hard day? I mean I know they can in theory - but ... I don't know. I miss people. Maybe it's just life, changing. Oh dear, I am really feeling blue. I'd better quit while I'm ahead!

x E